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Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

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131–140 of 326 posts

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#131

> For reasons you can probably guess, I do not use Copilot for my day job. Maybe I'm dumb but these reasons aren't obvious to me. Why doesn't the author use copilot at his day job?

Probably because the employer doesn't allow sending proprietary source code to random internet services on an employee's whim.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#132
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you’re a dimwit but I read your post[1] with an example and I am curious to whether you feel you’re losing something by telling the LLM it’s wrong and to try again, rather than going through the exploratory/iterative learning process yourself. For example, would you have known to ask about GeoJSON if you had not come across and learned about it pre-LLM? More succinctly: do you feel you’re learning more…

I was trying to fetch key-value pairs out of a database using PHP+PDO the other day and I knew there was a nice easy to do it but I couldn't remember how. Something about fetchAll, maybe PDO::FETCH_GROUP|PDO::FETCH_COLUMN.... what was it? So I asked a couple LLMs. They wrote out loops for me to format the data how I wanted. I could have copy-and-pasted that in and it would probably have worked. But I felt there was s…

Strong disagree. I have learned so many new things since I started using LLM's. Some of them I'm actually embarrassed to admit, because I should have known about them a decade ago.

If you work in a small company and you are the most experienced developer, you don't often get feedback on how you can improve things.

The trick is, quite simply: just ask. I regularly dump some code I wrote in a language model and then ask what can be done better.

I would never do that in any online space, because first, I don't wait an answer maybe some day, I need an answer NOW. And second, I prefer to avoid being called a fool.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#133

Years ago, over a decade ago now, I was a .Net developer. Microsoft introduced Entity Framework, their new way of handling data in .Net applications. Promises made, promises believed, we all used it. I was especially glad of Lazy Loading, where I didn't have to load data from the database into my memory structures; the system would do that automatically. I could write my code as if all my memory structures were popul…

Pardon me for the tangent (just a general comment not directed to OP). What I have learned over the years is that the only way to properly use ORM is as a fancy query tool. Build the query, fetch/update data, MOVE THE DATA to separate business objects. Don't leave ORM entities shared across the sea of objects! Phew, thanks, I got that off my chest.

I wouldn't have believed you until I moved from ActiveRecord (Rails's ORM) to Ecto (Elixir/Phoenix's data mapping library which is decidedly not an ORM.) It's a million times better and I'm never going back.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#134
post #88
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been finding this stuff genuinely useful for two years now, across Copilot and ChatGPT and Claude 3 Opus and similar tools. Either I'm a dimwit, easily conned by hype and shiny tools to the point that I can imagine benefits for two years that simply aren't there... or there's something to them.

You are clearly not a dimwit, and you don’t only have way more experience than most people here, you also have some amazing projects under your belt. However I can’t help but notice that the vast majority of blogposts, talks, tweets, and basically everything else you do now is around LLMs. Do you not think that’s indicative of this being “hyped” and “shiny tools”?

Deep learning is the most important thing to happen to philosophy since Socrates / Wittgenstein.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#135

Years ago, over a decade ago now, I was a .Net developer. Microsoft introduced Entity Framework, their new way of handling data in .Net applications. Promises made, promises believed, we all used it. I was especially glad of Lazy Loading, where I didn't have to load data from the database into my memory structures; the system would do that automatically. I could write my code as if all my memory structures were popul…

A key difference between database mapping and interactive AI tools is the position of the user.

I would not be enthusiastic about a system where I receive database query results for review, before delivering them to an end user somewhere on this planet. However, I am more than happy to get some extra help in communicating code from my brain to a compiler.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me for the tangent (just a general comment not directed to OP). What I have learned over the years is that the only way to properly use ORM is as a fancy query tool. Build the query, fetch/update data, MOVE THE DATA to separate business objects. Don't leave ORM entities shared across the sea of objects! Phew, thanks, I got that off my chest.

Agree completely, as does most of the Go community :) Newbie gophers are regularly told to learn some SQL and stop trying to rebuild ActiveRecord in Go ;) But in .Net, EF is still the most common way of accessing data (I have heard, because I stopped using it over a decade ago).

[deleted]

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me for the tangent (just a general comment not directed to OP). What I have learned over the years is that the only way to properly use ORM is as a fancy query tool. Build the query, fetch/update data, MOVE THE DATA to separate business objects. Don't leave ORM entities shared across the sea of objects! Phew, thanks, I got that off my chest.

adding an off the shelf ORM layer creates so much more opacity and tech debt than writing queries I don't understand why anyone would willingly put one into their stack. Sure, they're neat although I don't even know if they save time. There's something very satisfying about well-crafted queries. And is it ever really well crafted if you can't tweak them to improve their their execution plan? I've never had a client o…

ORM is not for writing analytics queries. It's for your CRUD operations. Something like Django Admin would be impossible without an ORM. You create tables for your business logic and customer support or whoever can just browse and populate them.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#138

Years ago, over a decade ago now, I was a .Net developer. Microsoft introduced Entity Framework, their new way of handling data in .Net applications. Promises made, promises believed, we all used it. I was especially glad of Lazy Loading, where I didn't have to load data from the database into my memory structures; the system would do that automatically. I could write my code as if all my memory structures were popul…

And it’s by far the best one now that all the issues that made old EF unsound were solved in EF Core.

Good developers know to appreciate that and wouldn’t want to touch Go ecosystem afterwards with a 10 feet pole.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#139

Local maxima go BRRRRRRR AI will get there eventually, but this current paradigm seems increasingly only useful for spam and shitty clip art. Even so, everyone is throwing absurd amounts of investment capital at it in the hopes that something useful will happen. It's a pretty clear depiction of the investor class being so detached from the technical reality of what they're investing in that they just sit around light…

It's definitely useful, but in higher level chat use cases, not so much high-precision generation (yet). Rubber ducking, brainstorming, and search-like use cases are definitely a level above what we had.

Re: Did GitHub Copilot increase my productivity?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

adding an off the shelf ORM layer creates so much more opacity and tech debt than writing queries I don't understand why anyone would willingly put one into their stack. Sure, they're neat although I don't even know if they save time. There's something very satisfying about well-crafted queries. And is it ever really well crafted if you can't tweak them to improve their their execution plan? I've never had a client o…

For me the biggest reason is automated database initialization and migration. After defining or updating the ORM model, I don't have to worry about manually CREATing and ALTERing tables as the model evolves. This is compatible with the OC suggestion of using ORMs as a "fancy query builder" and nothing more, which I strongly support.

Doesn't it also mean that any non-trivial migration (e.g. which requires data transformation or which needs to be structured to minimize locking) has to be defined elsewhere, thus leaving you with two different sources for migrations, plus some (ad-hoc) means to coordinate the two?

(I would say that it is conceptually perverse for a client of a system to have authority over it. Specifically, for a database client to define its schema.)

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