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Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

fortune.com

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Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#41

Post by explorer83 »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

Because outside of the rare entrepreneurs who make 50k a month working 5 hours a week, there are a lot who worked 90 hour weeks sometimes not even being able to pay themselves. Yes maybe at one point they wanted to wear many hats and venture out. But that isn't a sustainable lifestyle for everyone. To think that person couldn't develop an appreciation for a supportive environment with PTO, the ability to focus on a limited number of tasks, stable pay, stable work hours and other team members they can depend on is a very limited viewpoint imo.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#42

Post by Aurornis »

RHSeeger wrote: post #11
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

> I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work. It is common for decisions "from higher management" to be made without a real in-depth knowledge of…

> That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work.

Sounds great in moderation, but becomes horrible as soon as you get a guy who spends more time arguing than doing.

There’s a reason that “disagree and commit” is a common teaching. It’s fine to question and propose alternatives, but when people see everything as an opportunity to debate and fight it becomes a problem. A big one.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#43

Post by brunoarueira »

RHSeeger wrote: post #11
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

> I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work. It is common for decisions "from higher management" to be made without a real in-depth knowledge of…

Yeah, I agree with you, but sometimes higher management wants to implement anything without questions and multiple times the ideas taken more time to deliver! It's very toxic to work like that.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#44

Post by bdw5204 »

xeckr wrote: post #30

I remember reading about how McDonald's makes prospective franchise owners take personality tests and actively select against creative types.

That seems extremely plausible. The last thing McDonald's wants is a franchise doing something innovative or different because it wouldn't be the same terrible experience as every other McDonald's.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#45

Post by throwaway98797 »

theferalrobot wrote: post #26
anon373839 wrote: post #17

Not specific to tech, there can be a kind of resentment that some corporate employees feel toward entrepreneurs and solos. They envy their freedom and willingness to take risks. And of course, from a hiring perspective, if you are truly looking for someone who will march in lockstep and not ask questions, why would you want people who think for themselves?

Maybe that's it but whenever I've been in hiring rounds for dev roles and seen someone operating solo the story I see on their resume tends to look like they are solo because they were fired or otherwise couldn't make it in the corporate world so they tried to go solo, failed again and are trying to go back to the corporate world. That doesn't bode well. If I see someone got a real company going with a real developed…

what would be a better title then ceo for a small company?

i’ve generally used owner.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#46

Post by brunoarueira »

JustLurking2022 wrote: post #39
RHSeeger wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work. It is common for decisions "from higher management" to be made without a real in-depth knowledge of…

I've worked in both sorts of companies. The constant questioning may work well at smaller scale but kills productivity at larger scales. Putting aside that it inevitably becomes a political exercise as much as a technical one (because the different technical solutions almost always reflect competing priorities), it also requires perfect sharing of information across the organization, which does not scale. Especially…

I think the problem isn't constantly questioning! The major problem is many times, the ideas was top down, without a basic research or thought about possible RoI, wants to be discussed more because the team that will implement wants to know better and avoid mistakes, such behaviors always causes friction!

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#47

Post by bdw5204 »

lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #8

I've had recruiters from mid-sized, but rapidly growing, tech companies tell me to my face that they don't accept "entrepreneurial" applicants. This meant anybody who has worked at smaller startups or done consulting, contracting, or freelancing.

That explains quite a bit. My entire career since college has been "worked at smaller startups or done consulting, contracting, or freelancing." How is somebody with that background who doesn't have enough runway or funding to launch a startup supposed to find a job when companies actively discriminate against you over your background?

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#48

Post by jldugger »

Working at a FAANG, I've definitely seen founders and startup employees chafe at decision making that they felt powerless over. Stuff like legal refusing contracts with GCP due to reasons and then doing it anyways, or coping with staff engineers dictating decisions they'd have decided differently by quitting.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#49

Post by traceroute66 »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

> And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

Not without good reason.

I have been on that side of the table. I have recruited my fair share of salarymen.

To be fair, some don't make it past the interview table. I'm not joking. "Where's my office ?" is a question I have been asked. Seriously !

The majority of the time it ends up being a dreadful mistake.

The truth is the corporate guys are too used to be hiding in numbers.

In the corporate world you are one of a team. You can ask your team members for help. You can push tasks you don't want off onto your junior team members. All luxuries you don't get in the small business world.

And, sadly, if you are largely useless, in a corporate world, as long as you keep your head down, you can float around as dead-wood until someone gets round to firing you, usually a decade or so later by the time the your manager has passed it up to HR and HR has got round to it ...

There's no room for dead wood in small business.

And of course in the technology sphere, in the corporate world you get to play with bigger budgets. The hardware vendors take you out to lunch. You get "enterprise support". You don't get any of that in the small business world.

Don't get me wrong, I have had some good ex-corporate recruits, but the majority of time its been an expensive mistake. Which is why I tend favour SME recruits overall.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#50

Post by darkhorse222 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #11
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

> I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work. It is common for decisions "from higher management" to be made without a real in-depth knowledge of…

Bruh we are slave to the machine. Most of us want to get in, get our paycheck, let the boss feel smart, and go back to our actual lives. Programmers tend to overinflate the influence of their job in their personal lives.
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