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Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

fortune.com

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Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#31

Post by josh-sematic »

makk wrote: post #24
outop wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people want to dedicate a lot of their work time and energy to LARPing Tony Stark. Other people just want to deliver the value the company needs, get paid, and pursue their other goals outside of their job.

In English?

My attempted translation:

“Some people try to pretend to be a lone visionary genius who is wildly productive but also is an asshole to coworkers/authority. Other people don’t care that much about such ‘lone genius’ narratives and are much more interested in just doing what their boss tells them they must to earn a paycheck.”

Seems like a false dichotomy to me but I believe that’s what they’re trying to communicate.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#32

Post by 34679 »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

As someone who has done exactly that, I'll tell you why: because we know what's expected of employees. The people who start businesses are generally high performers. When I hired others, I naively expected them to approach their work in the same way I do. The reality is most people suck. They feel the best when they finish a shift having done the least, as though they got away with something. I feel the best when I get the most done.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#33

Post by explorer83 »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #23

I own(ed) my own business. It gets asked about at every job interview. The simple answer: I prefer a regular paycheck. I first started introducing Linux (as file/print servers) back in the mid-90's. The rate of support calls would drop from weekly to quarterly. A few of my clients I actually had to introduce a retainer. I was making "most of my money" on 'new hardware' upgrades. I was smart enough to stagger roll-out…

Life circumstances also change such as having a family, mortgage, wanting other hobbies, etc.. If a recruiter is assuming a previous entrepreneur is going to be permanently stuck in one mindset it's really not fair to the applicant. Maybe the person grew tired of the 90 hour weeks with no free time. Or wants to be able to take a day off without being stressed out that the whole deck of cards will collapse. They're primed to make good employees at that point who will likely appreciate the corporate perks vs someone who has been in that environment for a long time and feels entitled to it.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#34

Post by cushychicken »

georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

Most people in management say they want independent thinkers, but in reality, they want what you want: good soldiers.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#35

Post by peterhi »

thinkingkong wrote: post #18
WWLink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blindly follow orders isnt really on most startup folks’ list of things to do. The really funny thing I'm thinking about here is when I bring people onto a project I'm leading: I give them an intro to the project, all of the components at play, the needs of the project... and then introduce them to something they could work on and the general gist of what needs to be done. For some people that's enough to take it a…

Oh! Yeah I think I know what you mean. I - personally - would attribute that to fear. People from certain experiences or backgrounds dont want to be wrong or look bad. So they’ll demand a spec instead of being given general guidance. To me people who need spoon feeding and entirely dismissable if they cant be coached. The whole style that seems to work best is “we need to cross this river” rather than “build me a tem…

Oh god we had this in team building exercises in the woods. "Here's a pile of junk, work out how to cross a stream without getting wet". One guy grabbed a long piece of wood and vaulted over the stream, others weren't satisfied until they had incorporated every single item from the pile of junk into the solution

It suddenly made it clear how each person worked that I couldn't see in the office

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#36

Post by Aurornis »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

Many of the best entrepreneurs can (and do) excel greatly within corporate environments. They’ve learned how to lead, sell, and get things done even when they have to improvise.

The problem is that “ex-entrepreneur” is a title that anyone can give themselves by merely registering a domain name and a business one evening. The title attracts a lot of people who have no business being an entrepreneur or leading people, but want to be in charge of people and running the show.

That latter group is the long tail, and due to the inevitable failure of their startups those people are far more likely to be seeking jobs than the ex-entrepreneurs you want working for your company.

Having spent some time in local startup and entrepreneur communities, I have no problem believing that the average person who self describes as an ex-entrepreneur would make for a below-average employee. A lot of these people want to be in charge and tell others what to do more than they want to do the work, which is the opposite of what you’re looking for in people to work for your company.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#37

Post by throwaway98797 »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

this

big companies have processes that need to be followed

once you get used to process hard to go to shoot from the hip world of early stage start ups

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#38

Post by ancorevard »

andy99 wrote: post #4

Why would anyone think that the average entrepreneur or even early startup person would be able to seamlessly transition back and forth between the entrepreneurial and big corporate worlds, at least at the lower levels relevant here. It's a different mindset and skillset. And it works both ways, you'd expect startups to be biased against salarymen.

You should look into types of people are running the various parts of Rippling.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#39

Post by JustLurking2022 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #11
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

> I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. That sounds horrible. I want people working under/with me that will question the work, that will try to figure out if it's the right work. It is common for decisions "from higher management" to be made without a real in-depth knowledge of…

I've worked in both sorts of companies. The constant questioning may work well at smaller scale but kills productivity at larger scales. Putting aside that it inevitably becomes a political exercise as much as a technical one (because the different technical solutions almost always reflect competing priorities), it also requires perfect sharing of information across the organization, which does not scale.

Especially in any sales driven organization, I've seen it cause issues with infra teams questioning the need for certain features. Meanwhile, the answer is that the features are necessary because someone is willing to pay $$$ for them.

Re: Study found corporate recruiters have a bias against ex-entrepreneurs

#40

Post by bdw5204 »

cushychicken wrote: post #34
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m not a recruiter, but I am in “Big Tech”, and dealing with founders, or even just people who have only worked at startups, is frustrating. They tend to have underdeveloped skills in teamwork and listening to authority. Honestly, I just want likable people who will execute on my ideas (or the ideas I’m simply passing on from higher management), or with light discussion, even if the execution isn’t perfect. I feel l…

Most people in management say they want independent thinkers, but in reality, they want what you want: good soldiers.

They want a good soldier who pretends to be an independent thinker not an independent thinker who pretends to be a good soldier.

You can see this from the advice given to people looking to game interviews. Also from the lack of interview success for those who don't game interviews.

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