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Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

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Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#31

Post by 6510 »

jweir wrote: post #6
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

“When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

The correct answer is: I'm not, you're not either.

I've oddly asked a carpenter why he was using plywood, his response was: I'd prefer not to but this is what people want nowadays. (meaning this specific customer)

If you are a software engineer you, with pride, rewrite half the company in rust and the other half in elixer. Tell the board you wont be able to sleep.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#32

Post by dkarl »

The hook of the article leaves unanswered the question of why Steve Jobs made a big deal out of the backs of cabinets. The answer is that Steve Jobs knew how to sell luxury items to people who identified themselves with the quality of their work, whether they were accomplished creative professionals or cube-dwelling (now coworking) "knowledge workers" or MBAs who take sommelier classes or aspiring writers grinding on their novels at Starbucks. It was partly about the experience of using an Apple product, but it was just as much, if not more, about vicariously identifying with the standards of craftsmanship. If it was only about the experience, and the craftsmanship was a means to the experience, then the backs of the cabinets would not have mattered. They mattered because the craftsmanship was not just a means but was fetishized for its own sake.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#33

Post by c22 »

iwontberude wrote: post #30
rmnwski wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you got it wrong. That's why the motherboards on macs for example are "beautiful" and black.

A cabinetmaker creates the polished front and the unfinished rear. A software/hardware company needs everyone being part of the polished front at least in spirit. I liken it to people dressing for their job.

I haven't used an Apple product in some time, but to me it always felt like their software was the unfinished rear.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#35

Post by jbmsf »

justin_oaks wrote: post #25
ilaksh wrote: post #18

Oftentimes managers will make demands that interfere with ownership of the code. Such as requiring something to be finished in half the time it would take to do it without technical debt. Over and over and over again. I have had a lot of clients like this. It's very common especially for lower budget projects. You can literally cut corners you don't really want to or just get replaced by someone who does. They will o…

A cabinet maker has the option to say no because they're the one in charge of accepting the job AND implementing it. At least that's the way the article made it sound. Most of us are cogs in the machine and are given much less autonomy. So what is the "professional" to do if given a job and insufficient time to do it?

Our profession doesn't always work the way you describe. Some companies want cogs, some want professionals.

I can't give you advice beyond that, there are too many different circumstances. But in most of the places I've worked, it's been developers, not managers, cutting corners. Sometimes these are good choices, informed by product context and trade-offs. Sometimes it's a perceived urgency that doesn't actually exist. But it's almost never a micromanaging boss asking for something specific.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#36

Post by RangerScience »

justin_oaks wrote: post #20

> If the technical debt is a problem, 1) we shouldn’t have put it in there, and 2) we should include it in our estimates and address it. Yes. Don't tell your boss that you'll need to take time to address technical debt. The boss will always say "No don't do that, just add the feature". Sometimes they add "We'll fix that later." Later never happens and eliminating related technical debt is part of implementing the fea…

You know I wonder… why do so many of us feel like we need our boss to understand?

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#37

Post by formerly_proven »

brandall10 wrote: post #16
doytch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only would a professional carpenter use plywood, it may be a sounder choice because of its stability/weight ratio.

The point isn't about utility, it's about aesthetics - it's about how the product is finished. What you use in the back should be the same as elsewhere.

Even furniture from The Old Masters doesn’t have beautiful veneered back panels, but plain, unfinished boards.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#38

Post by hobs »

RangerScience wrote: post #36
justin_oaks wrote: post #20

> If the technical debt is a problem, 1) we shouldn’t have put it in there, and 2) we should include it in our estimates and address it. Yes. Don't tell your boss that you'll need to take time to address technical debt. The boss will always say "No don't do that, just add the feature". Sometimes they add "We'll fix that later." Later never happens and eliminating related technical debt is part of implementing the fea…

You know I wonder… why do so many of us feel like we need our boss to understand?

Because the boss says they want to understand, drags you to endless meetings to understand, but then manages to makes arbitrary decisions based on none of that information.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#39

Post by RangerScience »

justin_oaks wrote: post #25
ilaksh wrote: post #18

Oftentimes managers will make demands that interfere with ownership of the code. Such as requiring something to be finished in half the time it would take to do it without technical debt. Over and over and over again. I have had a lot of clients like this. It's very common especially for lower budget projects. You can literally cut corners you don't really want to or just get replaced by someone who does. They will o…

A cabinet maker has the option to say no because they're the one in charge of accepting the job AND implementing it. At least that's the way the article made it sound. Most of us are cogs in the machine and are given much less autonomy. So what is the "professional" to do if given a job and insufficient time to do it?

Yah. Article’s advice about “owning the implementation” is great and all, but limited to places where you’re not blocked from or fired for doing it.

Notably, from my small sample size (only small startups) - I don’t think I’ve known anyone who was fired for doing it. So it seems like it’s not a thing we can do… but I bet it’s something we can do in a lot more situations than we think.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#40

Post by willcipriano »

ilaksh wrote: post #18

Oftentimes managers will make demands that interfere with ownership of the code. Such as requiring something to be finished in half the time it would take to do it without technical debt. Over and over and over again. I have had a lot of clients like this. It's very common especially for lower budget projects. You can literally cut corners you don't really want to or just get replaced by someone who does. They will o…

Advise them of the issue. If they still want it, their funeral.

Anytime I move away from this frame it's not worked out for me.

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