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Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

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Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#21

Post by fuzzy2 »

dt3ft wrote: post #7
ungreased0675 wrote: post #4

I like the last paragraph. Will remember that when an engineer slows down a project talking about code smells and revisiting architecture decisions. > Professional software developers are performing a service for others. That’s the difference between a professional and a hobbyist or an artist.

> code smells and revisiting architecture decisions This is exactly what we're dealing with on top of shipping new features. An architectural decision that got changed 6 months later so the code had to be thrown out and re-written. Don't blame the engineers, blame the architects. If you have any.

Why blame anyone at all? Did everyone work to the best of their knowledge and beliefs? If not, why? And if they did, how are they to blame?

I make incorrect decisions all the time. I will continue to make them. Because I do not shy from making decisions and neither should anyone else.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#23

Post by heromal »

brandall10 wrote: post #12
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

I think that's two very different things - a complete set of features done poorly vs. an incomplete set of features done well. In general it's best to err on the side of the latter, it's going to give the customer a better UX. What exactly was the original iPhone missing? The only thing in the OS I recall was copy/paste. The other things we'd take for granted today likely weren't conceived then, including the App Sto…

It didn't have 3G IIRC

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#24

Post by sillysaurusx »

jweir wrote: post #6
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

“When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”

Thank you for finding the quote. I stand corrected. I think I misread this at the time as him saying that no one will see it, so it doesn’t really matter. It’s an interesting experience to wake up one day and see that the meaning of one of those old stories was exactly the opposite of your takeaway.

In hindsight there does seem to be some truth to this. What surprised me about the Hacker News codebase is that pg almost never cut corners. To this day I still find new features I never realized I wanted. On the other hand, pg never coded anything unless it was absolutely necessary for whatever he was trying to accomplish (or at least he presented his few public pieces of code as such), which is something I’ve had trouble emulating. Coding is just too much fun sometimes.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#25

Post by justin_oaks »

ilaksh wrote: post #18

Oftentimes managers will make demands that interfere with ownership of the code. Such as requiring something to be finished in half the time it would take to do it without technical debt. Over and over and over again. I have had a lot of clients like this. It's very common especially for lower budget projects. You can literally cut corners you don't really want to or just get replaced by someone who does. They will o…

A cabinet maker has the option to say no because they're the one in charge of accepting the job AND implementing it. At least that's the way the article made it sound.

Most of us are cogs in the machine and are given much less autonomy.

So what is the "professional" to do if given a job and insufficient time to do it?

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#26

Post by rmnwski »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

I think you got it wrong. That's why the motherboards on macs for example are "beautiful" and black.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#27

Post by tejtm »

disruptiveink wrote: post #19
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

You are correct. Steve definitely believed in doing things properly because you know they're there, regardless of who can see it: https://folklore.org/Signing_Party.html > Steve came up with the awesome idea of having each team member's signature engraved on the hard tool that molded the plastic case, so our signatures would appear inside the case of every Mac that rolled off the production line. Most customers would…

That was done in Amiga 1000 cases 1985-ish. I would be surpised if they were the first.

https://www.commodore-info.com/computer/item/a1000/en/deskto...

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#28

Post by ricardobeat »

tejtm wrote: post #27
disruptiveink wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. Steve definitely believed in doing things properly because you know they're there, regardless of who can see it: https://folklore.org/Signing_Party.html > Steve came up with the awesome idea of having each team member's signature engraved on the hard tool that molded the plastic case, so our signatures would appear inside the case of every Mac that rolled off the production line. Most customers would…

That was done in Amiga 1000 cases 1985-ish. I would be surpised if they were the first. https://www.commodore-info.com/computer/item/a1000/en/deskto...

The parent folklore.org link mentions this happened at Apple in 1982, end of first paragraph.

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#29

Post by [deleted] »

tejtm wrote: post #27
disruptiveink wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. Steve definitely believed in doing things properly because you know they're there, regardless of who can see it: https://folklore.org/Signing_Party.html > Steve came up with the awesome idea of having each team member's signature engraved on the hard tool that molded the plastic case, so our signatures would appear inside the case of every Mac that rolled off the production line. Most customers would…

That was done in Amiga 1000 cases 1985-ish. I would be surpised if they were the first. https://www.commodore-info.com/computer/item/a1000/en/deskto...

[deleted]

Re: Professional Corner-Cutting (2016)

#30

Post by iwontberude »

rmnwski wrote: post #26
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

Am I hallucinating, or does anyone remember the Steve Jobs story as the exact opposite? He used backs of a cabinet as an example of when it’s okay to cut corners, since nobody would ever see it. I don’t remember where I heard it or what the context was, but it was something along the lines of him trying to get one of the early Mac engineers to ship faster. There was a lot of corner cutting to get the original iPhone…

I think you got it wrong. That's why the motherboards on macs for example are "beautiful" and black.

A cabinetmaker creates the polished front and the unfinished rear. A software/hardware company needs everyone being part of the polished front at least in spirit. I liken it to people dressing for their job.
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