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Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour > This is untrue and unsupported by evidence Here is the diagnostic criteria for ASD: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html ... It literally lays out a path that can generate a non overlapping diagnosis. It sort of has to because we lummped what were previously two disorders together becaus…

Thanks I'm thoroughly familiar with the DSM criteria, the ICD criteria, and the research literature. > It literally lays out a path that can generate a non overlapping diagnosis. It does not. If you believe there are exist two autistic people who have no overlapping symptoms please present an example. > The moment there is a biological underpinning to something like ASD it gets interesting because what do you do with…

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#152
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant "people who didnt die before 25." I don't know much about autism, but I had three friends who died before 30 in accidents that were almost certainly related to ADHD. Two of them were doing behavioral therapy but didn't believe in pharmaceutical treatment. One of them was generally medicated but wasn't taking their medication on the day they died (due to medication shortages for ADHD drugs). That la…

I knew someone in high school that had ADHD. He totaled many cars when he wasn't on meds for things like game day for sports (not sure if that's a performance or health thing). What baffles me, is how someone diagnosed with a condition that affects driving is allowed to drive without the condition being treated - especially if they are under a prescription and just not taking it, and also if they have multiple accide…

ADHD doesn't affect everyone the same though.

For example, I have ADHD. I learned to drive at 15, got my license at 16, and managed to get my first speeding ticket at the age of 30, and my first car accident at 31 (of which I wasn't at fault). I wasn't diagnosed/medicated until I was almost 23.I do not think I am any better nor worse than the average driver either. Perhaps I have been lucky, but who knows?

Also, just because one is medicated does not mean it magically reduces all symptoms. IIRC, I think most adults only get something like 50% reduction in symptoms at best.

In my experiences, I find the efficacy of ADHD medication to be vastly overstated. I think this is mainly due to a strong honeymoon period the medication provides in the beginning. What I mean is that, the medications are extremely effective for a certain time period, but the longer one is one the medications the greater the diminishing returns become. There are only so many options/formulations and dosages can only be increased to an extent.

Also, euphoria is a very common side-effect when first starting the medications. So, a lot of life-changing anecdotes that people comment on the Internet in the beginning of treatment should be taken with a grain of salt. After a decade of treatment, most people cannot tell if I am medicated or not anymore. As in, most people think I am not medicated despite being so.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#153
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a spectrum, autism presents in many ways, but it's all considered "autism" at this point. There are not different "kinds". Sometimes "severe" autism at an early age calms down as a person grows. Sometimes "mild" autism gets worse as someone becomes dysregulated and overstimulated. Many times autism is missed in women and POC because they mask more readily than boys. Sometimes it's missed in boys because it's expla…

Why not ask autistic people Have you ever even seen someone with severe autism?

Strongly yes as per other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40329772

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#154
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a continuous range of people in between. Where do you draw the line?

This is like asking where to draw the line when somebody is bald. Are you bald if you have 1 hair? Yes. 2? 3? 137? There's of course reasonable room for discretion in saying what is or isn't bald. But it isn't reasonable to say somebody with a full-on afro is on the spectrum of being bald. Literally some of the most high functioning and successful individuals are being diagnosed as "on the spectrum" of what is, in it…

Many people are on the balding spectrum.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#155

Autism is rooted during fetal brain development. Behavioural and metabolic changes show up later. There is no an egg and chicken problem. The primary disease starts in the CNS and everything else follows

There’s so much brain development that happens in the first few years after birth that there’s absolutely no way you can say that with confidence.

No developmental anomaly can start after birth. It must preexist but is not detected. Proof: heavy cases of autism are diagnosed at birth, so the beginning lies sometime in uterus. The same holds for the lighter cases too.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm being productive by pushing back and saying that when people say that autism needs to be cured and prevented, that they shouldn't say that, because autism doesn't need to be cured and prevented. It's not a disease, but in this society it is a disability, and there's a stigma and lack of understanding around autism in general. What we can do today to make life better for autistic people everywhere is to spread awa…

This is about people diagnosed before the age of 5, they're almost all cases of severe autism. That's very different from the kind of autism you're talking about. People who are permanently unable to live independently have a condition that should be prevented if possible.

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here [1] is the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism. It's broad to the point of absurdity. The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk. The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem…

> The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem like an effect to pathologize normal behavioral differences within people. This is a phenomenon which is known for a long time in the hacker community. Relevant quote from the Jargon file ( http://catb.org/jargon/html/weaknesses.html ): "1994-95's fad behavioral disease was a syndrome called Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), suppo…

Which in turn becomes the dichotomy between wanting the diagnosis and thinking the diagnosis is silly.

You start off with some institution that has a set of rules on paper, which nobody actually follows or even reads because they discover what they're expected to do via social cues. Then someone with autism doesn't pick up on the social cues, commits a faux pas, and the administration flips through the rule book to find whatever rule they can be found to have broken in order to punish them.

The autistic individual is then told that they are bad and need to learn to follow the rules, so they read the rule book cover to cover and follow every rule to the letter. But many of the rules are aggressively stupid and impractical or even purposely designed to be violated by ordinary behavior so the administration always has an excuse to punish whoever they want. Strictly following them is also a faux pas.

The question then is what to do about it. The autistic individual wants some accommodations so they're not constantly being punished for not picking up social cues. The administration wants them to take some drug that makes them stop being atypical, or to be rid of them. These are, of course, two very different and incompatible things.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#158

I know of at least one book written by and for autistic people who advocates for a gluten free diet. They claim in the book that this significantly reduces their symptoms. I don’t know if I believe it or not, but the notion of gut-brain axis seems to imply that a good diet should help a bit, right?

I'll incidentally mention that gluten-free diets tend to incidentally be lower in FODMAPs which are another gut intervention, and autism has LONG correlated to digestive and dietary issues. Ketogenic/low-carb is also popular.

The gut-brain link I'm aware of three major theories. Gut issues could be causing a disorder of the brain. A disorder of the brain could be causing disordered lifestyle habits (Diet, exercise) causing digestive issues. A disorder of the brain could directly impacting digestive function.

I will however say, I would treat claims about the gut-brain axis and autism with the utmost scepticism as disgraced doctor Andrew Wakefield, who popularised the link between the MMR vaccine and autism to personally financially benefit from an undisclosed patent on a measles vaccine using fraudulent research, was a gastroenterologist and later anti-vax influencer who ended up popularising the gut-brain link of autism particularly among those who distrust scientific institutions. He notably influenced Jenny McCarthy who became a noted alt-medicine momfluencer in the '00s/'10s pushing gluten-free and anti-vax. Which is to say, research on the gut-brain link is done quite a lot by legitimate scientific researchers, quacks, and frauds alike so you have to be discriminating.

Additionally there have been various scientific reviews of dietary interventions, gluten-free being one of the most researched, and the evidence hasn't been shown ANY dietary intervention or gut intervention like fecal transplants is a silver bullet.

This isn't to say that there isn't anything to the idea that some people we've diagnosed as autistic or believe they're autistic, cannot be helped by dietary interventions. I would dare speculate, that a significant portion of those called "autistic" could make autistic symptoms fall into the sub-clinical range through gut interventions (diet AND exercise), and that such people may even be clinically distinct from other people considered autistic other than through their similar behaviour.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#159

I know of at least one book written by and for autistic people who advocates for a gluten free diet. They claim in the book that this significantly reduces their symptoms. I don’t know if I believe it or not, but the notion of gut-brain axis seems to imply that a good diet should help a bit, right?

Anecdotal, but we grow a heritage strain of wheat here in PHX (Sonoran White). Its appearance gives me pause. Common commercial wheat is very short in comparison. I have a friend who can’t eat “common” wheat products from the grocery store, having been diagnosed with severe gluten intolerance, but can eat Sonoran White without symptoms. You can follow the same exact recipe but substitute Sonoran White flour for stand…

> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome

All of those things have existed for ... ever

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here [1] is the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism. It's broad to the point of absurdity. The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk. The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem…

frankly, this will continue as long as performance-enhancing drugs and accommodations are gated behind diagnoses

What performance enhancing drugs are prescribed for autism?
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