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Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#61

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

manmal wrote: post #38
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #33

Used to have a mix of what could be considered ADHD/light asperbergers. I dont eat carbs and mostly stick to a keto diet, it resolved many symptoms. Our food is poison

Do you have microbiome dysbiosis? A keto diet might improve things (eg lower LPS production), but long term can diminish microbial diversity. I’m not saying keto is bad at all - it’s just that microbial diversity is an important predictor in GI health and one should keep an eye on that too.

Yeah i mean i know that keto isnt great, but it has changed my life to some degree. When in ketosis, i feel like i have "agency", otherwise i am this foggy headed, sloth

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#62

Post by throwaway2562 »

m00x wrote: post #40
faeriechangling wrote: post #2

> The researchers discovered that a small number of biochemical pathways are responsible for the majority of these changes, which could help inform new early detection and prevention strategies for autism. It won’t. Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis, not a single disease that exists in biology. It’s a label for those perceived by others in a certain light, defined in such a way that two with the same label…

That's completely incorrect. Autism has clear physiological differences in the brain. It's not just a personality difference. People like to call themselves autistic when it's just social awkwardness, and some doctors might even improperly diagnose them, but these are separate from the condition. https://www.healthcentral.com/condition/autism/autism-brain-... This could help us prevent autism completely.

Here’s hoping. Autism is pure hell for some families. Unless of course self-declared leaders of the ‘neurodivergent community’ declare such efforts to be genocidal, modern eugenics, and so on.

Relatedly, I was struck to see the recent breakthrough in curing congenital deafness condemned by members of the ‘deaf community’ on Twitter. So we unfortunately have good reason to expect the same kinds of folly here.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#63

Post by aleph_minus_one »

somenameforme wrote: post #21
furyofantares wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour I believed this until my daughter was diagnosed and then I was later diagnosed. My experience with (some) professionals was a surprise to me; a much wider variety of "observed behaviors" than I expected seem to stem from sensory issues for example. And I think it makes sense that humans might adopt a…

Here [1] is the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism. It's broad to the point of absurdity. The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk. The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem…

> The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem like an effect to pathologize normal behavioral differences within people.

This is a phenomenon which is known for a long time in the hacker community. Relevant quote from the Jargon file (http://catb.org/jargon/html/weaknesses.html):

"1994-95's fad behavioral disease was a syndrome called Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), supposedly characterized by (among other things) a combination of short attention span with an ability to ‘hyperfocus’ imaginatively on interesting tasks. In 1998-1999 another syndrome that is said to overlap with many hacker traits entered popular awareness: Asperger's syndrome (AS). This disorder is also sometimes called ‘high-function autism’, though researchers are divided on whether AS is in fact a mild form of autism or a distinct syndrome with a different etiology. AS patients exhibit mild to severe deficits in interpreting facial and body-language cues and in modeling or empathizing with others' emotions. Though some AS patients exhibit mild retardation, others compensate for their deficits with high intelligence and analytical ability, and frequently seek out technical fields where problem-solving abilities are at a premium and people skills are relatively unimportant. Both syndromes are thought to relate to abnormalities in neurotransmitter chemistry, especially the brain's processing of serotonin.

Many hackers have noticed that mainstream culture has shown a tendency to pathologize and medicalize normal variations in personality, especially those variations that make life more complicated for authority figures and conformists. Thus, hackers aware of the issue tend to be among those questioning whether ADD and AS actually exist; and if so whether they are really ‘diseases’ rather than extremes of a normal genetic variation like having freckles or being able to taste DPT. In either case, they have a sneaking tendency to wonder if these syndromes are over-diagnosed and over-treated. After all, people in authority will always be inconvenienced by schoolchildren or workers or citizens who are prickly, intelligent individualists — thus, any social system that depends on authority relationships will tend to helpfully ostracize and therapize and drug such ‘abnormal’ people until they are properly docile and stupid and ‘well-socialized’.

So hackers tend to believe they have good reason for skepticism about clinical explanations of the hacker personality."

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#64

Post by ModernMech »

faeriechangling wrote: post #2

> The researchers discovered that a small number of biochemical pathways are responsible for the majority of these changes, which could help inform new early detection and prevention strategies for autism. It won’t. Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis, not a single disease that exists in biology. It’s a label for those perceived by others in a certain light, defined in such a way that two with the same label…

> the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour.... You diagnose autism based on how people act, not who they are.

I'm able to mask until I'm alone. My meltdowns look exactly like the observed behavior you see in other people, I just hide it better.

I'm also verbal mostly, until I'm not and I'm dissociating. Then I look a lot what you're used to seeing, except i don't let you see that. I don't let you see me rocking and stimming.

I can talk for an hour in front of 100 people about my special interests at any depth, but I can't complete simple tasks that others can do every day like going to the grocery store and restaurants without extreme difficulty.

Some people are "high functioning" autists, meaning that they are able to suppress their negative autistic expressions for the benefit and comfort of people around them. This doesn't make them "not autistic" -- they still are even if you personally can't tell. It just means they're putting on an act for you, to make you happy, so that you don't respond in the negative way they are used to being received. You are witnessing a performance.

That suppression is not a constant, and it can't go on forever. Someone doing this long enough will go into autistic burnout, which is like an extended depression and comes with skill loss and an inability to function in society. If you were to see this person at that point, you'd "see" the autism then.

Is this all there is to being autistic though? No! Being autistic comes with a great capacity for curiosity, creativity, artistic expression, innovation, and excellence associated with committing fully (as in actually 100%, eschewing loved ones and society) to an endeavor.

These are things we don't want to "cure". Most of the problems I face related to my autism have to do with interfacing with society, and not understanding people or not being able to do things everyone else seems to be able to, without any compassion for my inability to do so.

As far as I can tell they come from being dysregulated, and being dysregulated comes from extreme sensory overload. If we can fix the sensory overload a lot of other things are fixed. But that doesn't mean we should be "curing" or "preventing" autism, and it doesn't mean people who aren't melting down and who can live by themselves aren't autistic -- they're just well regulated.,

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#65

Post by gopher_space »

somenameforme wrote: post #21
furyofantares wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour I believed this until my daughter was diagnosed and then I was later diagnosed. My experience with (some) professionals was a surprise to me; a much wider variety of "observed behaviors" than I expected seem to stem from sensory issues for example. And I think it makes sense that humans might adopt a…

Here [1] is the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism. It's broad to the point of absurdity. The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk. The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem…

Do you have the background and training to parse what you’re reading and apply it to individuals in the correct context?

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#66

Post by dkga »

jl6 wrote: post #15
Der_Einzige wrote: post #11

I know of at least one book written by and for autistic people who advocates for a gluten free diet. They claim in the book that this significantly reduces their symptoms. I don’t know if I believe it or not, but the notion of gut-brain axis seems to imply that a good diet should help a bit, right?

A gluten free diet may or may not help but it’s not synonymous with “a good diet”.

Indeed. ASD or not, everyone would surely benefit from following a nutritionist-set diet based on the person’s own requirements.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#67

Post by anon84873628 »

john01dav wrote: post #57

Pathologizing autistic behaviors is not the right approach here. Most autistic behaviors are harmless except insofar as allistic (non-autistic) people provide unnecessary consequences for it and through incompatibilities. We don't say that a Linux workstation in a network of Windows computers is broken or needs to be fixed (or visa-versa), but rather we recognize that the problems are due to the differences. As such,…

There is a big difference between "neurodiverse" people and severely autistic people facing huge challenges in their life. Are you seriously dismissing the idea of helping treat that latter group?

" this is not autism but rather autism with an accompanying intellectual disability and the intellectual disability is the reason for higher supports needs. "

This is a self-contradictory statement. But what do you think people are researching if not those intellectual disabilities -- why they occur and how they can be prevented.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#68

Post by shipman05 »

ModernMech wrote: post #28

"Prevention strategies" As an autistic person, no thanks. Let people be autistic.

I understand the sentiment, but there's a reason it's called the autism spectrum.

I work with several software engineers with autism who are as capable as their peers. Sure they may have behavioral quirks, but not significantly more so than the normal variation in human behavior. Their brains don't seem to work in an inferior or problematic way, just different.

On the other hand, I have a close relative with more severe autism who could never read and understand this article, could never type a comment such as yours. She's incapable of holding a job or living on her own without assistance. Her mother passed away young, and her older sister, just 19 at the time, had to take on the responsibility of being her sole caregiver, and she will have that burden for the rest of their lives.

For some it may be a different variation of the human experience, but for cases as severe as my relative's, I find it hard to believe that a cure or prevention for autism wouldn't be a massive quality of life improvement for all involved.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#69

Post by ModernMech »

2four2 wrote: post #42
ModernMech wrote: post #28

"Prevention strategies" As an autistic person, no thanks. Let people be autistic.

Autistic as an identity and autism as a disease are different things that are difficult to uncouple. Similarly to obesity, it's difficult to talk about the health aspect without people being sensitive about the identity aspect. I find it's useful when reading about research to empathize with the authors and realize their work is an attempt to be constructive instead of providing social commentary.

I'm being productive by pushing back and saying that when people say that autism needs to be cured and prevented, that they shouldn't say that, because autism doesn't need to be cured and prevented.

It's not a disease, but in this society it is a disability, and there's a stigma and lack of understanding around autism in general.

What we can do today to make life better for autistic people everywhere is to spread awareness and acceptance of autism. Not talk about curing and preventing it. That's stigmatizing.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#70

Post by giantg2 »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #41
giantg2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the quote.

I think they meant "people who didnt die before 25." I don't know much about autism, but I had three friends who died before 30 in accidents that were almost certainly related to ADHD. Two of them were doing behavioral therapy but didn't believe in pharmaceutical treatment. One of them was generally medicated but wasn't taking their medication on the day they died (due to medication shortages for ADHD drugs). That la…

I knew someone in high school that had ADHD. He totaled many cars when he wasn't on meds for things like game day for sports (not sure if that's a performance or health thing).

What baffles me, is how someone diagnosed with a condition that affects driving is allowed to drive without the condition being treated - especially if they are under a prescription and just not taking it, and also if they have multiple accidents attributed to the condition. We already require this for people with seizures, for people needing glasses to wear them, etc.

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