Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins • Hacker News Board

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#41

Post by IggleSniggle » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #14

Der_Einzige wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with high functioning autism make up a majority of the “people who died at 25 and didn’t know it until they were 80” crowd.

I'm not sure I understand the quote.

I think they meant "people who didnt die before 25." I don't know much about autism, but I had three friends who died before 30 in accidents that were almost certainly related to ADHD. Two of them were doing behavioral therapy but didn't believe in pharmaceutical treatment. One of them was generally medicated but wasn't taking their medication on the day they died (due to medication shortages for ADHD drugs).

That last one rear-ended a semi-truck at high speed. Probably after getting lost in thought after reading a "You shouldn't text and drive. If you text and drive, it may be the last text you ever read. Remember, don't read superfluous text; pay attention to the road, for your own safety and the safety of those around you." Obviously I don't know that last part; I am just bitter.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#42

Post by 2four2 » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #28

"Prevention strategies" As an autistic person, no thanks. Let people be autistic.

Autistic as an identity and autism as a disease are different things that are difficult to uncouple. Similarly to obesity, it's difficult to talk about the health aspect without people being sensitive about the identity aspect. I find it's useful when reading about research to empathize with the authors and realize their work is an attempt to be constructive instead of providing social commentary.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#43

Post by piker » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:48 PM UTC

b800h wrote: post #39

"with only 10–20% of children diagnosed before 5 years of age able to live independently as adults" > Well this is nonsense for starters - circular logic. Doctors won't diagnose autism in most cases before the age of eight. For the diagnosis to have happened before the age of five would imply that the case is profound in the first place.

The stat seems accurate on that basis. True, it may be read to imply more.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#44

Post by mewpmewp2 » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:48 PM UTC

faeriechangling wrote: post #2

> The researchers discovered that a small number of biochemical pathways are responsible for the majority of these changes, which could help inform new early detection and prevention strategies for autism. It won’t. Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis, not a single disease that exists in biology. It’s a label for those perceived by others in a certain light, defined in such a way that two with the same label…

It's gross to hear that they want to prevent it.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#45

Post by m00x » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

softfalcon wrote: post #31

Is anyone else reading this and seeing the worrying, “we can just medicate away the autism”? They’re talking about a possible pharmaceutical “fix” for autism in children under 5. Seems a bit premature for just recently finding a metabolic difference in a cohort of children.

That's not what the article suggests at all. It's during the developmental stage, which is by nature temporary.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#46

Post by mewpmewp2 » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:50 PM UTC

2four2 wrote: post #42

ModernMech wrote: post #28

"Prevention strategies" As an autistic person, no thanks. Let people be autistic.

Autistic as an identity and autism as a disease are different things that are difficult to uncouple. Similarly to obesity, it's difficult to talk about the health aspect without people being sensitive about the identity aspect. I find it's useful when reading about research to empathize with the authors and realize their work is an attempt to be constructive instead of providing social commentary.

Autism is not a disease. It's a diverging feature.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#47

Post by willsmith72 » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:50 PM UTC

b800h wrote: post #39

"with only 10–20% of children diagnosed before 5 years of age able to live independently as adults" > Well this is nonsense for starters - circular logic. Doctors won't diagnose autism in most cases before the age of eight. For the diagnosis to have happened before the age of five would imply that the case is profound in the first place.

That's the whole point.

It's not like they took the age 5 at random, it's literally what was used in the study

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#48

Post by ants_everywhere » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:50 PM UTC

faeriechangling wrote: post #2

> The researchers discovered that a small number of biochemical pathways are responsible for the majority of these changes, which could help inform new early detection and prevention strategies for autism. It won’t. Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis, not a single disease that exists in biology. It’s a label for those perceived by others in a certain light, defined in such a way that two with the same label…

> Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis

This is untrue and unsupported by evidence

> It's a label for those perceived by others in a certain light

This is untrue and unsupported by evidence

> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour

This is untrue and unsupported by evidence

> You diagnose autism based on how people act, not who they are

You diagnose all disorders based on observable phenomena, not some sort of metaphysical essence.

> Any biological markers for autism are politically suspect

What is this, Lysenkoism?

> as it would imply those without those markers are invalid

Are you saying that in your view biology has some ability to mark people as valid or invalid? That's an extremist view and I wonder how you arrived at it. If your ideology requires you divide the world into "valid" and "invalid" people, then it's probably a good time to rethink your approach.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#49

Post by ntxy » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:51 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #27

furyofantares wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour I believed this until my daughter was diagnosed and then I was later diagnosed. My experience with (some) professionals was a surprise to me; a much wider variety of "observed behaviors" than I expected seem to stem from sensory issues for example. And I think it makes sense that humans might adopt a…

I mean I was diagnosed with a salad of things. And then different doctors tell me different things about how they're all related or unrelated. It was honestly a very amusing situation. The only sense I got out of the whole long ass process was: neurological sensory difference "combo" in the roll of the dice, some of it given hereditarily, some this that and the other. I really see why this stuff is so frustrating for…

Please keep writing. I'm hooked!

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#50

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, May 11, 2024, 5:51 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #21

furyofantares wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defined in such a way that two with the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour I believed this until my daughter was diagnosed and then I was later diagnosed. My experience with (some) professionals was a surprise to me; a much wider variety of "observed behaviors" than I expected seem to stem from sensory issues for example. And I think it makes sense that humans might adopt a…

Here [1] is the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism. It's broad to the point of absurdity. The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk. The weaker diagnoses, which is an increasingly large chunk of all of them, often seem…

> It's broad to the point of absurdity.

It's called "autism spectrum" for a reason, partially because a lot of the symptoms overlap with each other, and can appear in every possible permutation.

> The reason many people think autism is a faux disorder is because it includes everything from an individual who simply sits in the corner endlessly flapping his hands, completely unable to function as a human being, to Bill Gates or Elon Musk.

At least for the latter, it's undeniable he's presenting quite a few symptoms, and that even before he went off the rocker in 2018 with the "pedo" comments. He's lucky to be as rich and successful as he is.