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RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

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Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say the BB is faster at email, but by how much? A few seconds? Even if the difference is a few minutes, it doesn't compensate for BBs many other shortcomings. Is there something I'm missing? FYI, I'm a long time iPhone user.

If you're in a important conversation and have a few minutes delay between each response, you're wasting a lot of time. Switching to an instant messenger isn't always an option if you're in a corporate environment. You don't want your conversations sitting on a third party server.

This is precisely what makes BlackBerry and BES so appealing for enterprises. Also, I think e-mails are actually faster on BES than on BIS.

Little known fact: did you know that BES allows you to access your company's entire address book on your BlackBerry? When I was a co-op, it meant I could e-mail anyone in the company just by looking up their name. Sure, LDAP allows you the same capability, but on most platforms, that means you need to expose it publicly. You could secure by forcing use over a VPN, I suppose, but that's extra overhead as well, which is somewhat precious on a mobile device. It's less relevant nowadays, but it's a really cool feature that RIM has had for nearly a decade now that few consumers even know about.

I would argue that most BlackBerry users do not have they devices setup to take advantage of all of their capabilities. And to be honest, that is a huge failure of RIM's marketing and publicity teams.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#32
post #28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "reverse takeover" phrase made me think of Apple and NeXT, which worked out rather well. Perhaps the same will happen at RIM.

The thing is that Apple's turnover in the beginning of the 2000s was following a period of stagnation in PC innovation. Microsoft simply did not have to innovate in the OS department and for that reason, they didn't really at least since Windows 2000, arguably even earlier if you only consider GUI innovations. RIM however needs to turnaround in a market situation where the two hotshots, Google and Apple, have been pu…

This is great analysis and insight that I hadn't thought about.

Microsoft is definitely a beast, lurking, waiting, and ready to pounce. Their offering is extremely compelling, and is a threat to every player in the market.

We'll see what happens. No one can argue that these aren't interesting and exciting times.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say the BB is faster at email, but by how much? A few seconds? Even if the difference is a few minutes, it doesn't compensate for BBs many other shortcomings. Is there something I'm missing? FYI, I'm a long time iPhone user.

If you're in a important conversation and have a few minutes delay between each response, you're wasting a lot of time. Switching to an instant messenger isn't always an option if you're in a corporate environment. You don't want your conversations sitting on a third party server.

On the extremely rare occasion I find myself waiting for an email, I take a deep breath and get back into the present moment.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#34
post #22

Maybe I'm biased, but to me the story of RIM is another example of the triumph of open source over closed-source solutions. iOS is based on BSD, Android on linux (and heavily leverages the OpenBinder IPC mechanism. I've looked closely at the old blackberry OS and the new QNX based one, and it's amazing how far behind they are. Seeing the new QNX OS and how they're using it was a real eye opener. They have nothing tha…

Very funny that your view is exactly the opposite of HorizonXP's view in his posts, where he asserts that QNX is much more advanced that either iOS or Android.

Yeah, +1 on this. I wish I could provide better evidence to support my claims about QNX being better, but I really would butcher it. Maybe tomorrow, when I'm less sleep-deprived, I can take a stab at it. Right now, I'm responding with items that I know I can speak about, since they're off the top of my head.

I would actually argue that QNX and RIM's current efforts are more open than before. Prior to RIM's acquisition of QNX, it was open-source, called OpenQNX. They closed it shortly after acquiring it (which doesn't help support my claims :-P), but they've really been pushing open-source efforts.

Cascades is built on Qt, and they've been committing heavily to the gitorious repo. Moreover, they've contracted KDAB to continue those efforts.

If you look at this page https://developer.blackberry.com/native/documentation/oss.ht..., you'll see a list of all the open-source components that they've ported to the platform. Everything is hosted on github at http://blackberry.github.com/.

Look, I know I'm sounding like a BlackBerry fanboy, and it's because I am. I drank the Kool-Aid, and I like it. I want them to succeed. They may not be the company we deserve, but the company we need. We need a 3rd player to usurp Apple's draconian App Store policies, and provide some semblance of quality over Google Play Store.

Again, I think RIM is making the right moves. If you're a developer, you owe it to yourself to check out the resources that they're offering. Follow them on twitter, @BlackBerryDev. Heck, check out one of the BlackBerry Jam World Tours that might be in a town near you (http://www.blackberryjamworldtour.com/).

Research them yourself and draw your own conclusions. You may still disagree with me. That's ok. At least, you'll be well-informed and STILL disagreeeing with me. :-)

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

RIM will remain the choice of companies and governments strictly due to BES; no other OS offers such direct central control over the users' devices. Companies (mine in particular) are struggling to cope with Apple and Android devices in the enterprise, and Windows Phone 7 only slighty better.

I wouldn't bet on this forever. There are increasingly good tools to manage at least iOS devices in enterprise environments, and the platform security features of iOS are nearly as good as Blackberry. In the BYOD world (which is growing), you can deal with less management of devices (enforcing some minimum standards), then layering stuff like Good on top of them to secure business applications.

In the BYOD world, very few people will be bringing Blackberries to the party.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They have the capability to deliver something truly wonderful with BlackBerry 10. Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. >Their acquisition of QNX several years back was a masterful move. How so? In hindsight, it did nothing for them.…

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

>Just put a Bold 9900 beside a Galaxy Nexus or an iPhone. It really holds its own, and I'd say it's better

It doesn't hold up. I suppose if you like a keyboard with a small screen it may be superior, but the 9900 runs a deprecated, dated OS with no app support.

>RIM's problem has always been a) software (which they're fixing b) marketing.

Their problem is lack of vision.

Regardless, they may or not have bad marketing, but every phone they released in the last 2-3 years has been subpar - no amount of marketing would have fixed that.

>But Apple's momentum HAS been broken.

I said it was a two horse race. Apple is the biggest individual manufacturer and Android has a bigger market-share. At the same time, MS is trying to wedge themselves. Actually, MS is a good example of how incredibly tough it is to break into the market. Windows phones are actually pretty darn good devices, with good hardware and really nice software, backed by millions of marketing dollars, and they are still struggling. What does that say about Rim and BB10?

>You need to understand that QNX was purpose built to run on embedded platforms...re-purposing it into a mobile platform for the 2010s and 2020s is not an easy move

Oh I get it, and that's my point. It was hard. It was hard enough that it's taking them until Q4 2012 to release QNX phones. Which means they don't have a current-gen phone to compete with the latest offerings of Apple, Samsung, and Microsoft. Which means their current, dated OS is a dead platform that doesn't stand up to competition - predictably they are losing users and developers in droves.

Given all that, don't you think that maybe buying QNX wasn't a "masterful stroke"? Do you think consumers care about QNX the embedded OS or the fact that RIM is working really really hard to get QNX on mobile phones?

>BlackBerry is still the only platform lauded by the US government for its secure mobile needs. RIM would like to maintain that.

Who cares. They can't live only off of government contracts, they need the consumer market.

>jumping on the Android bandwagon is the stupidest fucking choice any company can make right now, and I'm not even going to detail why

Samsung is making money. Amazon is making money. Using Android doesn't guarantee success but it would have given RIM a battle-tested modern OS to release their next generation of phones and tablets last year or two years ago. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault them for trying to build their own OS, because it wasn't clear 2 years ago that this was a bad decision, but with the benefit of hindsight QNX has been a total and utter disaster for the company. The one device it launched with has been a financial failure.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

>Just put a Bold 9900 beside a Galaxy Nexus or an iPhone. It really holds its own, and I'd say it's better It doesn't hold up. I suppose if you like a keyboard with a small screen it may be superior, but the 9900 runs a deprecated, dated OS with no app support. >RIM's problem has always been a) software (which they're fixing b) marketing. Their problem is lack of vision. Regardless, they may or not have bad marketing…

>It doesn't hold up. I suppose if you like a keyboard with a small screen it may be superior, but the 9900 runs a deprecated, dated OS with no app support.

I was referring to hardware build quality. Nowhere did I say that its software is comparable, and I actually made those points about legacy BBOS myself. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

>Their problem is lack of vision. Regardless, they may or not have bad marketing, but every phone they released in the last 2-3 years has been subpar - no amount of marketing would have fixed that.

+1 on I said it was a two horse race. Apple is the biggest individual manufacturer and Android has a bigger market-share. At the same time, MS is trying to wedge themselves. Actually, MS is a good example of how incredibly tough it is to break into the market. Windows phones are actually pretty darn good devices, with good hardware and really nice software, backed by millions of marketing dollars, and they are still struggling. What does that say about Rim and BB10?

+1 on this, but does that mean that they shouldn't try? Should MS just stop trying?

> Samsung is making money. Amazon is making money. Using Android doesn't guarantee success but it would have given RIM a battle-tested modern OS to release their next generation of phones and tablets last year or two years ago. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault them for trying to build their own OS, because it wasn't clear 2 years ago that this was a bad decision, but with the benefit of hindsight QNX has been a total and utter disaster for the company. The one device it launched with has been a financial failure.

I'll answer your previous points here.

I think we're flipping back and forth between legacy BBOS and QNX. There's so many acronyms, it is difficult to keep it straight.

BBOS is for all intents and purposes, in maintenance mode (i.e. dead). QNX/BB10 is the new hotness. RIM has spent considerable effort to get their developer community moved over to the new platform, and it is working. At the same time, they're trying to bring back the developers they haemorrhaged, and bring in new ones. This seems to be working as well, but again, we'll see when the device launches what kind of apps we see. Apparently, App World is the fastest growing app store, with a ~264% jump in apps available. That's from RIM, so understand that it likely has some "spin" attached to it. :-P

Android does not fit the goals of RIM. QNX/BB10 does. RIM would rather focus on giving prosumers and enterprise users the tools they need to get things done (i.e. BlackBerry people do, another marketing angle from RIM). That means better battery life, easy and complete multitasking, with software that has an intuitive workflow so the user can accomplish what they need to, when they need to. RIM has significant engineering prowess and know-how that is miles ahead of what Apple or Google can achieve. To simply throw that away to latch onto Android? For what? Short-term profits? Samsung and Amazon make money, sure. Samsung makes it because they're selling handsets hand over fist with something like 40% of the Android market. Amazon makes practically nothing from devices and has resorted to making profits from its App Store. Amazon's model could be sustainable, but Samsung's likely isn't. Moreover, how much room is there for another Samsung in the Android space? None. None of the other manufacturers have a marketshare greater than 10%. You're talking about HTC, LG, and Motorola, all big name manufacturers, being squashed by Samsung.

I would argue that's a tougher way to compete, than to differentiate yourself with an entirely new OS.

My final point: startups fail all the time. You either recognize those failures and pivot, or you die. RIM is trying to pivot. Is it too late? Maybe. But let them try.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They have the capability to deliver something truly wonderful with BlackBerry 10. Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. >Their acquisition of QNX several years back was a masterful move. How so? In hindsight, it did nothing for them.…

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

> OH GOD HAS THE MARKETING BEEN BAD! Atrocious.

Particularly in Australia, where it's just comically terrible (and the subject of a lot of ridicule):

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/1/2990708/rim-wake-up-campaig...

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