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Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

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181–190 of 198 posts

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#181
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my example can be framed in terms of deterrence. However, I think punishment can fill many purposes. Retribution is largely in the eyes of victim, so the need is subjective and depends on their emotional desire for revenge. I'm not convinced that victims will be emotionally satisfied with the explanation of causal chain that goes back to the big bang. To be honest, I dont really understand how the concept of res…

If someone took action because of rational choice, they can make a different choice/action in the future. If someone is a ‘bad puppet’/fundamentally programmed badly, then what choice do we have except to destroy them or ‘rewrite’ their programming? That is the difference, and a big one - because in the first case, consent is possible and meaningful. The second one, it is not.

I think I agree with that, but I'm not sure how it relates to free will and criminal justice.

Do you think that rationality is related or equivalent to free will???

I agree that someone's rationality may impact the efficacy of deterrence and Rehabilitation.

Both irrational and the rational would need reprogramming, just by different means. You would try to convince a rational person that it's in their interest to obey if you can. For an irrational person you'd have to use other means. This is basically how it works today.

Where does consent come into all of this? I understand that there maybe a difference in capacity to understand and consent, but not always. Irrational, for example impulsive people, can still consent. Normally consent isn't required for criminal justice to be carried out.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heritability is a population statistic, individuals dont have "heritability". So it doesnt apply to any "kid" anywhere. It's a practically useless concept outside of extremely narrow fields of biology, where you can control causes or otherwise eliminate genetic variation. In the vast majority of cases where people use 'heritability', it is useless. Knowing how much a trait varies, or fails to vary, with genes tells y…

Yes, heritability is a population statistic for specific traits. I don't think anyone is arguing that individuals have heritability, just like individuals can't be "diverse". > Knowing how much a trait varies, or fails to vary, with genes tells you nothing about whether its inherited. I am not sure what this is trying to convey. Because I think there's clear cases where stuff is inheritable, and clear cases where stu…

I don't think anyone is arguing that individuals have heritability

isn't saying that someone's character is inherited from their parents such a claim?

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#183
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my argument and problem is with the idea of a non-deterministic mind. I think it is a non-sensical concept. Even if the mind is free from physical world constraints, it is still subject to it's own nature. If the mind is self direction, the nature of the mind or soul determines its choice. I dont see how this changes the question of free will from a personal or moral responsibility perspective. Someone can as…

It absolutely impacts the question - because in your example, there is no actual choice available on behalf of the person. All they have is their inevitable fate, as it were, that they are playing out. And while that fate may not be known in advance, it is unchangeable and fixed.

Maybe this is the heart of it.

How does someone with free will choose one option and not another? Is it not their character or soul but determines a choice? How could they choose something different without being someone different.

I'm willing to believe that a Choice can't be predetermined or calculated before it happens. What I don't understand is why the choice would ever be different in an identical universe with an identical person making the decision.

This seems to be a paradox of free will. A person has the freedom to choose between options, but choice and will imply this action is based on something, and not purely random. If Free Will choice is based on something, why would the choice be different for the same chooser.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#184
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, heritability is a population statistic for specific traits. I don't think anyone is arguing that individuals have heritability, just like individuals can't be "diverse". > Knowing how much a trait varies, or fails to vary, with genes tells you nothing about whether its inherited. I am not sure what this is trying to convey. Because I think there's clear cases where stuff is inheritable, and clear cases where stu…

I don't think anyone is arguing that individuals have heritability isn't saying that someone's character is inherited from their parents such a claim?

No it isn't. Here's it's not an individual that is being claimed to have heritability. It's their 'character', which is a trait, that is being claimed to be heritable.

For eg. if you have dark skinned parents, you are likely to be dark skinned yourself.

So 'skin color' is a trait that is being claimed to have heritability.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#185
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely impacts the question - because in your example, there is no actual choice available on behalf of the person. All they have is their inevitable fate, as it were, that they are playing out. And while that fate may not be known in advance, it is unchangeable and fixed.

Maybe this is the heart of it. How does someone with free will choose one option and not another? Is it not their character or soul but determines a choice? How could they choose something different without being someone different. I'm willing to believe that a Choice can't be predetermined or calculated before it happens. What I don't understand is why the choice would ever be different in an identical universe with…

this is an interesting question. i have asked myself looking looking back at my life if there are any choices that i could have made differently if nothing else changed and i didn't know then what i know now. and my conclusion is that no, i would not have changed anything. wanting to believe that i could have made a different choice is wishful thinking likely influenced by regret about bad choices.

there was no decision that was entirely random yet strongly influencing the future.

however, here is an idea for a possible proof that free will exists: the freedom to believe in god or not. there is nothing in the world or in ones life that can determine that belief. sure, certain experiences can influence that belief, but nothing can determine it. we always have the freedom to either believe or not believe in god. and we can change our mind any time. on the other hand, the choice whether to believe in god or not is able to influence every other choice we make.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#186
post #5

The big difference seems to come from self-reporting vs independent reporting. In other words, people around you think your personality is more similar to your dad’s than you think it is.

A few weeks ago, I noticed a personality "quirk" in my 14 yr old daughter that had disappeared in my own teens. I've never told my wife, no one else has told her (not alot of my family left to tell it, they might not even have been aware). It's specific, non-subjective. It seems almost impossible that it should be genetic (but I have no other idea how it might heritably transmit). The idea that personality is heritab…

What kind of quirk?

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wealth is hard to come by, but income is much more available. Income is a completely different thing than wealth and those two are not always directly correlated. You can have a good income but not accumulate much wealth because all is bein eaten away by taxes and a high CoL, and you can also have a low income but still decent wealth from an inheritance for example. And the original claim was that wealth gets lost b…

I think that as a practical matter, they are extremely correlated. Wealth sitting in cash loses half its value every 20 years. Physical assets require upkeep and property taxes. In practice, if you aren't making income, you losing wealth.

Wealth sitting in cash is almost an oxymoron. It's not wealth if it's not producing more wealth.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#188
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is arguing that individuals have heritability isn't saying that someone's character is inherited from their parents such a claim?

No it isn't. Here's it's not an individual that is being claimed to have heritability. It's their 'character', which is a trait, that is being claimed to be heritable. For eg. if you have dark skinned parents, you are likely to be dark skinned yourself. So 'skin color' is a trait that is being claimed to have heritability.

The point is that heritability is not inheritability. The former only tracks the latter in highly specific experimental circumstances that generally do not obtain.

Of course a scottish accent isnt inheritable. The point is that the heritability statistic is near 100%.

There is no statistics for inheritability. We have no idea, in general, what is inheritable and what isnt. It requires the kinds of experiments which are practically impossible or unethical.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth is hard to come by, but income is much more available. Some countries have publicly available data on individual income filings. The US provides anonymized data, but scienentist have done a lot of fancy tricks to make the family connections clear. Raj Chetty among others have done a lot of work on US social mobility[1]. They were able to trend parent/child incomes in the US going back to 1940, and have tons of…

>Wealth is hard to come by, but income is much more available. Income is a completely different thing than wealth and those two are not always directly correlated. You can have a good income but not accumulate much wealth because all is bein eaten away by taxes and a high CoL, and you can also have a low income but still decent wealth from an inheritance for example. And the original claim was that wealth gets lost b…

A good book to read is Piketty's "Capital in the 21st Century" in which he does a lot of analysis to support your intuition.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#190
post #46

I feel this factor plays a huge role in rich/upper middle class/upper-class people staying rich or growing richer. Kids that grow up upper-class imitate their parent’s approach to work and life in general, giving them an upper-hand. Many poor kids are very smart and capable but end up imitating bad examples early on, making them handicapped. One of the best things a disadvantaged kid can get is a good role model. Doe…

>It is estimated that 70% of wealthy families will lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% will lose it by the third.[0] [0] https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...

That study was done by the Williams Group. Although it is widely cited across many popular news sites, it is surprisingly impossible to find the original study. Also, there's also almost no information about the Williams Group out there. No, Wikipedia page, for instance. Their web site says they do: "Government Relations, Public Affairs, Lobbying"
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