Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#1

Post by shouldcode » Thu, May 09, 2024, 9:24 PM UTC

Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been
randomwik.org

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#2

Post by dimgl » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:10 PM UTC

This is an extraordinary amount of magic. I think I'll just stick to Vite/React, thanks.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#3

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:12 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#4

Post by spapas82 » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

I'm a happy unpoly user! I prefer it from other similar solutions (ie htmx) because of the layers/modals functionality.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#5

Post by sublinear » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

From the main unpoly page:

> Get powerful new HTML attributes to build dynamic UI on the server. Works with any language. Gracefully degrades without JavaScript.

I wouldn't call being completely dependent on the server "graceful degradation". App server and web server should not be conflated. A degradation should imply the site is still up but some interactions don't work or work intermittently.

You can trivially achieve that with a static web server in front of an app server that only has to concern itself with providing a data-only API. Frontend is frontend and backend is backend. Separation of concerns is important in real world production environments. Client-server paradigm is the last thing I would ever question about web apps or any apps really.

Also, please don't invent arbitrary standards and create lock-in. This isn't 2010 anymore. Htmx and Hotwire are just as terrible as this. No point in comparing when they're all fundamentally flawed.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#6

Post by ericb » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

This was true, but the new Rails Turbo Page Morphing in Turbo 8 changes the game entirely.

I've been using it. The experience is amazing!

Some highlights:

* In 7 lines of code, with no javascript, I had my index and view pages live-updating whenever a model changed on the server! It is spooky good. Nothing against JavaScript, but now I only maintain one ERB view and no SPA. This is a large dev speed multiplier.

* If you have a page with a parent object where you add/delete child items, you make your actions delete/add the child on the server, and once the object is updated, the page just re-renders with no visible redirect/reload.

https://dev.37signals.com/turbo-8-released/

A diff with comments: https://github.com/basecamp/turbo-8-morphing-demo/pull/4/fil...

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#7

Post by shouldcode » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:23 PM UTC

sublinear wrote: post #5

From the main unpoly page: > Get powerful new HTML attributes to build dynamic UI on the server. Works with any language. Gracefully degrades without JavaScript. I wouldn't call being completely dependent on the server "graceful degradation". App server and web server should not be conflated. A degradation should imply the site is still up but some interactions don't work or work intermittently. You can trivially ach…

Not everything needs to be an SPA. Separation of concerns is important but not always required.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#8

Post by bvrmn » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:25 PM UTC

dimgl wrote: post #2

This is an extraordinary amount of magic. I think I'll just stick to Vite/React, thanks.

The shear amount of magic boilerplate vite creates to make react app work is quite uncomprehensible. I'm not a senior frontend dev by any means but it's always a damned job to do migration of existing project to a next magic bundler.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#9

Post by sublinear » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:26 PM UTC

shouldcode wrote: post #7

sublinear wrote: post #5

From the main unpoly page: > Get powerful new HTML attributes to build dynamic UI on the server. Works with any language. Gracefully degrades without JavaScript. I wouldn't call being completely dependent on the server "graceful degradation". App server and web server should not be conflated. A degradation should imply the site is still up but some interactions don't work or work intermittently. You can trivially ach…

Not everything needs to be an SPA. Separation of concerns is important but not always required.

I suppose I'll need to check my full stack privilege, but I just know starting a project like this eventually becomes someone else's tech debt nightmare.

If it wasn't already difficult enough to bootstrap a project especially these days. To any entrepreneurs reading, if this is the junk your devs come up with run away as fast as you can.

Re: Unpoly is what Hotwire should have been

#10

Post by evantbyrne » Thu, May 09, 2024, 10:38 PM UTC

sublinear wrote: post #5

From the main unpoly page: > Get powerful new HTML attributes to build dynamic UI on the server. Works with any language. Gracefully degrades without JavaScript. I wouldn't call being completely dependent on the server "graceful degradation". App server and web server should not be conflated. A degradation should imply the site is still up but some interactions don't work or work intermittently. You can trivially ach…

Using a SPA framework like React does not eliminate the need for server uptime. Modern build systems do code splitting, scripts are served by servers, and forms are handled server-side for security. Client-side draft persistence also seems like the perfect use-case for progressive enhancement, if that is a concern.