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California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

calmatters.org

21–30 of 58 posts

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.

Is it cheaper to run a gas generator at some point?

[deleted]

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.

Is it cheaper to run a gas generator at some point?

Actually yes, I did the math a few months ago and if you have a gas generator such as [1], you can produce electricity from PG&E's gas for cheaper than PG&E's own electrical rates.

Details:

The generator linked below can produce 17 kWh of electricity by burning 307 cubic feet of natural gas. That translates to 3.07 therms of gas, and looking at my bill PG&E charges around $2.3 / therm, so the generator would produce electricity at a marginal cost of $0.41/kWh, cheaper than what I pay.

Of course this ignores maintenance costs and the upfront cost of the generator itself ($6,000), not to mention environmental costs.

[1] https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#23

Where is the incentive for everyone to not mine bitcoins?

This is not eliminating use-based billing. It's adding an income based fee on top of rate decreases. You'll still pay for the electricity at some of the highest rates in the world.

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#24
post #19

> The new California charge will be $24 for most customers, but lower income households, who already qualify for discounted electric rates, will see fees of either $6 or $12. This will never go down. It will only go up. And the real idea here is to get a min fixed amount from net zero customers with their own generation (ie solar).

I'd be fine if this was a true fixed fee, that gets increased when infrastructure is gets improved, similar how water is billed.

But I know it won't because ya know corruption and waste.

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#25
post #2

I don't really understand this article. "The new California charge will be $24 for most customers, but lower income households, who already qualify for discounted electric rates, will see fees of either $6 or $12.". What? Is this like a surcharge of some kind on top of a regular use charge? The average electric bill in NYS is $230 a month, in California it's $220. So I don't really understand the context for this art…

Currently, I pay $10 per month to be connected to grid. Now I will need to pay $24 with zero consumption for majority of the year.

Me too.

We installed additional solar two years ago, and it's taken our net grid draw to zero, with our house providing excess power to the grid every month. We only pay the $10/month grid connect fee.

Too bad. I'd hoped never to have to pay more than that grid connect fee as a result of investing in my own power generation.

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#26
post #2

I don't really understand this article. "The new California charge will be $24 for most customers, but lower income households, who already qualify for discounted electric rates, will see fees of either $6 or $12.". What? Is this like a surcharge of some kind on top of a regular use charge? The average electric bill in NYS is $230 a month, in California it's $220. So I don't really understand the context for this art…

Actually providing electricity consists of two parts. There is the fixed infrastructure of all the transmission lines, transformers, maintenance, and similar, plus the preparedness of generators to provide electricity on demand even when it isn't financially worthwhile. (The latter robustness was behind Texas' problems a few years ago.) Then there is the electricity you actually consume. They were all combined into one per kwh price that was adjusted every year or so by the regulator so the utilities got to cover the costs and get a 5% return on their "investments".

This is now an attempt to bill separately for those fixed costs versus the actual kwh costs. As an example someone with solar and battery completely covering their needs would have been paying $0 (there is more & fine print), despite all that fixed infrastructure being in place to provide all their needs without notice. Similarly homes with solar panels are pumping electricity back into the grid at times now when it is least needed. Commercial solar providers get curtailed and cannot do that. (See "duck curves" for more information.)

People using the least amount of electricity weren't paying much. People using the most electricity were getting solar, and weren't paying much towards that fixed infrastructure. Those in the middle were paying the most. This will in theory move more of the burden onto either side of the middle. Make your own mind up if that is fair.

But it gets worse. Most electricity in the state is provided via PG&E. You'll note they have been in the news over the last decade for various incidents such as exploding gas mains and neglecting maintenance leading to wildfires. That has been very expensive to address and rectify (many billions of dollars). Guess who is ultimately paying for all that? Hint: not the shareholders.

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.

Genuinely, I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine my electric bill being 5x let alone 15x. Do y'all just have to conserve like crazy or is your electric bill like a $1000+/mo and that's just normal.

The extreme rise in prices is relatively recent, mostly due to the court decision post the Camp fire that said the power companies are liable for the fires. Through the 2010s power was around $0.15-0.30/kWh iirc but after the decision the power companies had to replace all their aging infrastructure all at once and pass the cost on to consumers.

The rise coincided with the large drop in solar and battery prices, so most people just have solar now. Before installing solar and batteries my family in the exurbs did conserve very well and paid under $100/mo. I don't conserve very well and pay $125-200/mo. Worst bill I've ever had a few years ago was $700 but I was running indoor grow lights and had doors open for animals while running AC during a heatwave (it was ridiculously dumb and the cost is why I don't do it anymore).

Re: California's electricity rates will shift to a fixed fee based on income

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.

Is it cheaper to run a gas generator at some point?

Yes and a lot of people around here already have propane generators because SDGE kept turning off power once or twice a week during the day for the infrastructure upgrades that took years.
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