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Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

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Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#121

Post by s1artibartfast »

feoren wrote: post #95
darby_eight wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This implies one's being upper class is a reflection of having better habits than the poor, which is incorrect. They just have more money. Rich people could not survive poverty.

Both can be true, if growing up with more money is a causal factor in having "better" habits (in terms of wealth generation/retention). I also agree that many rich people could not survive poverty. Both are adapted to their situations. The problem is that this makes it harder to bring people out of poverty, because you're trying to pull them into a situation they're less adapted for. I actually am in favor of simply…

What would cause them to not survive poverty? would they all commit suicide or spontaneously combust?

Avoiding death is a pretty strong force for adaptation to new circumstances.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#122

Post by whimsicalism »

NetBeck wrote: post #46
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #32

I feel this factor plays a huge role in rich/upper middle class/upper-class people staying rich or growing richer. Kids that grow up upper-class imitate their parent’s approach to work and life in general, giving them an upper-hand. Many poor kids are very smart and capable but end up imitating bad examples early on, making them handicapped. One of the best things a disadvantaged kid can get is a good role model. Doe…

>It is estimated that 70% of wealthy families will lose their wealth by the second generation and 90% will lose it by the third.[0] [0] https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...

We do not have anywhere near the quality of data about familial wealth holdings to say anything of the sort

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#123

Post by whimsicalism »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #116
mjburgess wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, remember: heritability of scottish accents is near 100%, and heritability of two eyes is near 0%. Why? The covariance of genes with accent is near 100%: almost everyone who speaks scottish interbreeds within the same geographical area. As for eyes: there is almost no variation in the species between the number of eyes. Since ~everyone has 2, no genetic variation whatsoever discriminates. The co-variation of a g…

Will a kid born to Scottish parents who was separated at birth and raised by Chinese parents in China also speak in a Scottish accent? Or are you just giving insanely strawmannish arguments no one actually presents?

they’re making a (correct) point about causality and geographic gene variance

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#124

Post by mucle6 »

mjburgess wrote: post #44
mucle6 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some resources or topics to research for someone who doesn't know what a weak effect or co-linearity? If I google those topics, I don't know if I'll find anything relating to a criticism of this field.

Specifically for the area mentioned: https://gwern.net/doc/genetics/heritable/2015-burt.pdf But if you want a general criticism of these academic linear methods of observational analysis: https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.10488

Didn't expect to see statistical consequences of fat tails! I bought that book and it was soooooo dense. I had trouble keeping up with it even after rereading it. Its basically a textbook

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#125

Post by marcosdumay »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #99
crmd wrote: post #5

The big difference seems to come from self-reporting vs independent reporting. In other words, people around you think your personality is more similar to your dad’s than you think it is.

A few weeks ago, I noticed a personality "quirk" in my 14 yr old daughter that had disappeared in my own teens. I've never told my wife, no one else has told her (not alot of my family left to tell it, they might not even have been aware). It's specific, non-subjective. It seems almost impossible that it should be genetic (but I have no other idea how it might heritably transmit). The idea that personality is heritab…

Quite possibly a quick of yours can cause your daughter's quirk, and a parent of yours had it too.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#126

Post by s1artibartfast »

whimsicalism wrote: post #120
s1artibartfast wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of real world socioeconomic data on it. studies usually look at the population in terms of 20 or 25% segments. That doesn't mean it is true for the 1% or 0.1%. That said, there are lots of examples of people entering and leaving the top 1% too, so outcome isn't perfectly deterministic.

Actually, real world socioeconomic data on familial wealth holdings is incredibly hard to come by.

Wealth is hard to come by, but income is much more available.

Some countries have publicly available data on individual income filings. The US provides anonymized data, but scienentist have done a lot of fancy tricks to make the family connections clear.

Raj Chetty among others have done a lot of work on US social mobility[1]. They were able to trend parent/child incomes in the US going back to 1940, and have tons of great insights.

I dont remember all of the findings off the top of my head, but one was that relative social mobility (%s) for the US have been constant over time. Another was that economic mobility out of the bottom classes is dominated by poor immigrants. It is unclear if it is genetic, personality, or culture, but children of poor immigrants out perform native born poor by an enormous factor (2-3X better IIRC)

https://www.econtalk.org/raj-chetty-on-economic-mobility/

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#127

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #29

Some of the comments here are quite baffling for me to read. Of course I'm like my parents. I'm completely made up of their genetic material and for my formative years I spent almost all of my time with them. I've never considered this to be taboo either, it's bloody obvious. Is there some sort of hidden context here I'm not getting?

[deleted]

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#128

Post by apwell23 »

alistairSH wrote: post #12
crmd wrote: post #5

The big difference seems to come from self-reporting vs independent reporting. In other words, people around you think your personality is more similar to your dad’s than you think it is.

As I grow older, the number of "oh shit, I sound like my dad" moments grows exponentially. Good thing people seem to like him - if he was a gigantic ass, I'd be in trouble. ;)

My dad has an habit of making an innocent remark that other party percives as offensive. He blurts out things in his enthusiasm. I used to feel second hand embarssement from it when i was younger.

Now i see catch myself doing the same thing. I even got into trouble at work for it.

Re: Familial Transmission of Personality Is Higher Than Shown in Typical Studies

#129

Post by pavlov »

whimsicalism wrote: post #58
throwaway924385 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to discuss that you can't and where can't you discuss it?

> where can't you discuss it? Publicly, in academia, generally anywhere? > What do you want to discuss The topic at hand? The 'cycles of abuse' thing I mentioned earlier? GWAS with behavioral predictions and their usage in increasing the power of non-genetic behavioral studies? All sorts of things about genetic basis for behavior? Even the way I'm getting responded to here indicates that people are searching for a 'g…

If it’s such a taboo, why not just go to the essential point and state clearly what you’re talking about since this is an Internet forum.

The coy “I’m not allowed to talk about this, ooh” act is tiresome.

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