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Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

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Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#91

Post by dawnerd »

squigz wrote: post #70
dawnerd wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to reduce piracy is to make access easier and cheaper - something the music industry figured out. Sure music still gets pirated but its a lot less.

Well, no, that isn't the only way to reduce piracy. Another way would be widespread collaboration between the largest tech corporations to lock down the pipeline from manufacturing to sale and onward If users continue to accept this path, which... they seem to, that is where we'll inevitably end up.

That wont work. You can't tech your way out of this short of brain implants instead of screens. If there's a screen/speakers it's going to be pirated full stop. Games, okay that's a different story sure but they're already going down that path with online only games anyways.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#92

Post by sureIy »

burningChrome wrote: post #88
hannob wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM schemes never worked, and it has been speculated that the people building them always knew it, but had other goals. Backn in the days it was: Of course you can break DVD copyprotection schemes. But you cannot build a legal opensource DVD player software. Today it's: Of course every Netflix series can be found on the pirate bay. But you're not legally allowed to build an alternative netflix player frontend.

Just as an aside and probably a dumb question - is Pirate Bay still a thing? I know they have archival stuff you can access, but I thought Pirate Bay died out a long time ago and even pier to pier networks have all but disappeared with streaming. I feel like this is kind of a naïve question, but I haven't needed to use pier to pier stuff since streaming did become the standard and remember a lot of articles on Pirate…

> pier to pier

I can’t believe that we don’t use this terminology. Of course pirates go from pier to pier. Missed opportunity

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#93

Post by jsheard »

grishka wrote: post #90
jsheard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4K streaming content is hit or miss because most services lock that behind Widevine L1, which requires implementors to use a secure enclave and the entire signal path to use strong encryption. If an L1 implementation gets compromised it quickly has its keys revoked and is downgraded to L2/L3, so piracy groups have a limited time window to dump as much 4K content as possible. Those lower Winevines tiers are permanentl…

> the entire signal path to use strong encryption But the display panel itself still receives an unencrypted LVDS signal, which should not be too hard to decode. There are (were?) also cheap HDMI splitters that conveniently strip HDCP. Your only issue is that yes, you can't get at the original compressed video stream and have to reencode, possibly losing a tiny bit of quality.

That is true, but ripping content in that way is a much bigger burden on piracy groups since it has to be done in realtime, can't be done in parallel without multiple expensive hardware rigs, and metadata like subtitles can't be extracted automatically. Rips of streaming shows often have a dozen or so subtitle tracks and nobody is going to transcribe and re-time all that by hand if they can't decrypt the stream directly.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#94

Post by yencabulator »

daveoc64 wrote: post #77
londons_explore wrote: post #6

Is there any video DRM scheme which successfully protects video content appearing on the pirate bay within 24 hours? I really don't see why so many millions (billions?) of dollars have been spent on technologies which so far have never kept the bad guys out.

The DRM clearly does work in preventing "casual piracy" - where average users do things like downloading a file and keeping it forever (even after cancelling a subscription) or copying the file to a friend.

Video streaming hasn't been "a file" in a long time. HLS et al download little snippets at a time, adjusting to current bandwidth circumstances, typically with video and audio separate, etc. Even without DRM, the average user couldn't "download a file" from Netflix.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#95

Post by crtasm »

lossolo wrote: post #81
crtasm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the previous two years of uncracked Denuvo and only selecting games that seem notable: Dragon's Dogma 2 (2024) Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (2024) Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League (2024) Street Fighter 6 (2023) Hi-Fi Rush (2023) Dead Space (2023) Star Wars Jedi: Survivor (2023) Persona 5 Tactica (2023) EA Sports FC 24 (2023) NBA 2K24 (2023) Assassin's Creed Mirage (2023) Atomic Heart (2023) Lost Ju…

Some of the games you mention were already cracked but not by the scene.

Which ones? My list has nothing to do with scene or otherwise.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#96

Post by grishka »

jsheard wrote: post #93
grishka wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the entire signal path to use strong encryption But the display panel itself still receives an unencrypted LVDS signal, which should not be too hard to decode. There are (were?) also cheap HDMI splitters that conveniently strip HDCP. Your only issue is that yes, you can't get at the original compressed video stream and have to reencode, possibly losing a tiny bit of quality.

That is true, but ripping content in that way is a much bigger burden on piracy groups since it has to be done in realtime, can't be done in parallel without multiple expensive hardware rigs, and metadata like subtitles can't be extracted automatically. Rips of streaming shows often have a dozen or so subtitle tracks and nobody is going to transcribe and re-time all that by hand if they can't decrypt the stream direc…

Are subtitle tracks also encrypted? I've always had the impression that only video itself is.

edit: But the subtitle tracks are also available on software-only DRM levels that are easy to break.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#97

Post by squigz »

dawnerd wrote: post #91
squigz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no, that isn't the only way to reduce piracy. Another way would be widespread collaboration between the largest tech corporations to lock down the pipeline from manufacturing to sale and onward If users continue to accept this path, which... they seem to, that is where we'll inevitably end up.

That wont work. You can't tech your way out of this short of brain implants instead of screens. If there's a screen/speakers it's going to be pirated full stop. Games, okay that's a different story sure but they're already going down that path with online only games anyways.

Because the idea of brain implants is so far-fetched?

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#98

Post by devwastaken »

londons_explore wrote: post #6

Is there any video DRM scheme which successfully protects video content appearing on the pirate bay within 24 hours? I really don't see why so many millions (billions?) of dollars have been spent on technologies which so far have never kept the bad guys out.

No. It is fundamentally impossible. DRM centralizes piracy, it makes it profitable both socially and financially to pirate harder. As DRM tries to get harder it actually gives pirates more power.

These pirates release high quality content that is better than the service provides on most devices. Typically in HEVC as well, requiring less download size.

It's also great for those that don't have consistent Internet and want to download over time.

DRM and anti piracy are a snake oil industry for business suit types that think they're protecting their assets. They're not, but they don't understand the infinitely copiable nature of digital. They want control at any cost.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#99

Post by squigz »

sspiff wrote: post #72
squigz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no, that isn't the only way to reduce piracy. Another way would be widespread collaboration between the largest tech corporations to lock down the pipeline from manufacturing to sale and onward If users continue to accept this path, which... they seem to, that is where we'll inevitably end up.

What about the analog loophole? At some point, the data needs to be manifested in the real world.

It's not as though there's no effort to close this loophole (see HDCP and probably others) - I don't expect them to give up any time soon

Granted, pointing a camera at a screen and recording will always be possible - but I say if we ever reach the point where that is the only option, we've lost.

Re: Microsoft PlayReady – Complete Client Identity Compromise

#100

Post by jsheard »

grishka wrote: post #96
jsheard wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but ripping content in that way is a much bigger burden on piracy groups since it has to be done in realtime, can't be done in parallel without multiple expensive hardware rigs, and metadata like subtitles can't be extracted automatically. Rips of streaming shows often have a dozen or so subtitle tracks and nobody is going to transcribe and re-time all that by hand if they can't decrypt the stream direc…

Are subtitle tracks also encrypted? I've always had the impression that only video itself is. edit: But the subtitle tracks are also available on software-only DRM levels that are easy to break.

Actually now I think of it that doesn't matter since you could just pull the subtitles from the weakly protected 720p version then apply them to the higher resolution versions. Ripping the 4K video through LVDS or HDMI capture would still be annoying though.
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