Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#11

Post by forza » Sun, May 27, 2012, 12:57 PM UTC

pooriaazimi wrote: post #10

Yrlec wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is IKEA not an example of a successful company?

He's not saying it's not a successful company (it certainly is). What he said is that IKEA, being a traditional-business-disruptive company (with its too much competitive pricing), is probably not much in favor of flourishing market economy .

"with its too much competitive pricing"

...and its agressive tax planning.

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#12

Post by kryptiskt » Sun, May 27, 2012, 1:19 PM UTC

Yrlec wrote: post #4

Sweden is a really amazing country! In addition to being a well functioning democracy it also has these features: * A flourishing market economy that has created everything from IKEA and H&M to Spotify and Skype. * Free health-care * Free college education * Low corruption * A well functioning justice system (practically no patent trolls!) It certainly has it's problems but compared to other countries it is truly ama…

> (practically no patent trolls!)

There is Håkan Lans, probably the patent troll with the best PR in the world.

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#13

Post by T-A » Sun, May 27, 2012, 1:27 PM UTC

Yrlec wrote: post #8

noodleey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if IKEA functions in favor of flourishing market economy or against it.

In what way is IKEA not an example of a successful company?

IKEA is a very successful international company. It was founded in Sweden in 1943, when the system which you find so wonderful was not yet in place (taxes were low, for starters), and like all Swedish companies of that era it subsequently profited from being based in one of two European countries whose industrial base was not bombed to rubble during WWII, the other one being Switzerland. With Marshall aid flowing to Europe from the US, much of what needed to be bought was bought from those two countries. When taxes started rising, IKEA moved to greener pastures, and so did its founder. Ingvar Kamprad has been living in Switzerland since 1976. Guess why. I could go on and pick your list apart piece by piece, but will content myself with your most egregious piece of disinformation: Skype. As any hacker should know, the software was created by Estonians and acquired by the two "founders", Friis (a Dane) and Zennstrom (a Swede). They were nowhere near Sweden when any of that happened. They met in Denmark, where Zennstrom had moved to work (he wisely left Sweden even before graduating, did his last year in the US) and were both living in the Netherlands at the time. Last time I checked, Zennstrom, the closest thing to a Swedish Skype connection, lived in London and managed his holdings through holding companies in various low tax jurisdictions, which, needless to say, means not Sweden.

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#14

Post by dfc » Sun, May 27, 2012, 1:42 PM UTC

forza wrote: post #9

Yrlec wrote: post #4

Sweden is a really amazing country! In addition to being a well functioning democracy it also has these features: * A flourishing market economy that has created everything from IKEA and H&M to Spotify and Skype. * Free health-care * Free college education * Low corruption * A well functioning justice system (practically no patent trolls!) It certainly has it's problems but compared to other countries it is truly ama…

Sweden is outstanding if you ignore all the equally great countries in Europe and elsewhere. Sweden also used to be the standard-bearer for the Nordic model, this is not true anymore. There's plenty of reasons to avoid Sweden, but here are the top ones: * Everything is expensive. * Taxes are high. * Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive. * Weather is cold and/or dark most of the year. * Culture…

" Sweden also used to be the standard-bearer for the Nordic model, this is not true anymore."

Tackiest comment I've read this week...

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#15

Post by maayank » Sun, May 27, 2012, 1:43 PM UTC

forza wrote: post #9

Yrlec wrote: post #4

Sweden is a really amazing country! In addition to being a well functioning democracy it also has these features: * A flourishing market economy that has created everything from IKEA and H&M to Spotify and Skype. * Free health-care * Free college education * Low corruption * A well functioning justice system (practically no patent trolls!) It certainly has it's problems but compared to other countries it is truly ama…

Sweden is outstanding if you ignore all the equally great countries in Europe and elsewhere. Sweden also used to be the standard-bearer for the Nordic model, this is not true anymore. There's plenty of reasons to avoid Sweden, but here are the top ones: * Everything is expensive. * Taxes are high. * Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive. * Weather is cold and/or dark most of the year. * Culture…

"Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive."

Is it plain non-availability? If so, then why? If not, then why? (I'm genuinely interested)

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#16

Post by maayank » Sun, May 27, 2012, 1:48 PM UTC

daeken wrote: post #3

hastur wrote: post #2

Wow, this is awesome. While the world's biggest "democracy" (India) censors the web, Swedish government sponsors means of dissidence.

FYI, Tor was originally sponsored by the US Naval Research Lab, and the US has always been a pretty bad player in this regard (though more so now than in the past).

whenever I discuss Tor with people who have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I hear "yea, but it was funded by the US so it probably has a backdoor/wouldn't be funded if they couldn't read the data".

I don't agree with that, but what can you say other than "it's open source so many eyeballs are auditing it"?

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#17

Post by forza » Sun, May 27, 2012, 2:27 PM UTC

maayank wrote: post #15

forza wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden is outstanding if you ignore all the equally great countries in Europe and elsewhere. Sweden also used to be the standard-bearer for the Nordic model, this is not true anymore. There's plenty of reasons to avoid Sweden, but here are the top ones: * Everything is expensive. * Taxes are high. * Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive. * Weather is cold and/or dark most of the year. * Culture…

"Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive." Is it plain non-availability? If so, then why? If not, then why? (I'm genuinely interested)

Yes, non-availability. Basically high demand because of rapid urbanization, poor infrastructure, small and single city center. Low supply because of rent control on the first and second hand market, conversion of rentals and not enough new buildings. At least for the three large cities in Sweden.

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#18

Post by sdqali » Sun, May 27, 2012, 2:35 PM UTC

hastur wrote: post #2

Wow, this is awesome. While the world's biggest "democracy" (India) censors the web, Swedish government sponsors means of dissidence.

I, as an Indian am tired of the 'World's Biggest Democracy' label. I feel it is a clever way for India's politicians to mask huge problems we face as a democracy - rampant social inequality, throwing money at problems that need creative solutions cotinuous effort and commitment etc.

Except for very few states, turn up for elections seldom crosses 50%. If the number of people participating is the measure for biggest, I would think there are other places with bigger participation in the electoral process.

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#19

Post by awidegreen » Sun, May 27, 2012, 2:51 PM UTC

forza wrote: post #9

Yrlec wrote: post #4

Sweden is a really amazing country! In addition to being a well functioning democracy it also has these features: * A flourishing market economy that has created everything from IKEA and H&M to Spotify and Skype. * Free health-care * Free college education * Low corruption * A well functioning justice system (practically no patent trolls!) It certainly has it's problems but compared to other countries it is truly ama…

Sweden is outstanding if you ignore all the equally great countries in Europe and elsewhere. Sweden also used to be the standard-bearer for the Nordic model, this is not true anymore. There's plenty of reasons to avoid Sweden, but here are the top ones: * Everything is expensive. * Taxes are high. * Housing (more or less) can't be rented, buying is expensive. * Weather is cold and/or dark most of the year. * Culture…

and considering that everything is expensive, the wages are not that high either. Moreover buying in apartment in a appropriated size (>=55m^2) close to the city in Stockholm is always >3 million SEK (~330k €).

Re: Swedish aid money to Tor, online activism

#20

Post by Yrlec » Sun, May 27, 2012, 2:55 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #12

Yrlec wrote: post #4

Sweden is a really amazing country! In addition to being a well functioning democracy it also has these features: * A flourishing market economy that has created everything from IKEA and H&M to Spotify and Skype. * Free health-care * Free college education * Low corruption * A well functioning justice system (practically no patent trolls!) It certainly has it's problems but compared to other countries it is truly ama…

> (practically no patent trolls!) There is Håkan Lans, probably the patent troll with the best PR in the world.

But he's suing in the U.S. Not in Sweden.