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Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
51–60 of 189 posts
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#52Absolutely. If Martha Stewart went to jail for much less, a certain CEO[1] should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. Some back-of-the-napkin-math: If we focus on the 4m Model 3 (& Y) vehicles sold that had these claims attached and assume that there was a peak uptake rate of 46% declining to 11% as these claims became obviously untrue. On FSD @ an ever-increasing price of $6000-$12000…
> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Strongly disagree with both claims. Fraud of a sufficient degree causes harm at a scale that is equivalent (in economic terms at least) to the consequences of murder. And jail time absolutely speaks to wealthy people, given the amount of money and effort wealthy people will spend defending themselves to avoid it.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#53Absolutely. If Martha Stewart went to jail for much less, a certain CEO[1] should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. Some back-of-the-napkin-math: If we focus on the 4m Model 3 (& Y) vehicles sold that had these claims attached and assume that there was a peak uptake rate of 46% declining to 11% as these claims became obviously untrue. On FSD @ an ever-increasing price of $6000-$12000…
> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Hard time seems much more severe than fines and penalties, and the damages caused are much more severe than petty theft (which gets you jail time.) it seems totally appropriate to jail these people to me.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#54The latest self driving is getting really good. My main problem is being a front seat driver and taking action because I’m not sure of it’s thought process but it ends up getting things correct. I think all these systems* could benefit from earlier braking to give the “supervisor” more piece of mind. * including my wife in this.
agree, half the people in this thread havnt used it. i think it's probably clear to most FSD testers that end-to-end NN trained on video will get you L5 eventually.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#55Absolutely. If Martha Stewart went to jail for much less, a certain CEO[1] should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. Some back-of-the-napkin-math: If we focus on the 4m Model 3 (& Y) vehicles sold that had these claims attached and assume that there was a peak uptake rate of 46% declining to 11% as these claims became obviously untrue. On FSD @ an ever-increasing price of $6000-$12000…
> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
The size of white collar crimes, measured in financial damage, and the large number of victims of many white collar crimes, not to mention the damage to the economy, institutional reputation, etc. makes a car theft ring that would get 10 years look like piffle.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#56Absolutely. If Martha Stewart went to jail for much less, a certain CEO[1] should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. Some back-of-the-napkin-math: If we focus on the 4m Model 3 (& Y) vehicles sold that had these claims attached and assume that there was a peak uptake rate of 46% declining to 11% as these claims became obviously untrue. On FSD @ an ever-increasing price of $6000-$12000…
> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Hard time costs humans the same amount whether they're rich or poor - insofar as the justice system is equally accessible and you can't just lawyer your way out if wealthy or get screwed by a disinterested public defender if poor, of course.
Money is amoral. It quickly becomes a calculation of ROI to violate the law. We've been reluctant for some reason to index fines against the wealth of the offender, but what would be a ruinous fine for a poor person is irrelevant to a wealthy person (eg. $1000 gag order violations). Also, the wheels of justice turn inexorably but slowly, and if first-to-market matters a lot with new there may be no fine that could restore things to the way it should have been if everyone acted within the law.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#57This is about defrauding people who bought a tesla, not investors. > In 2020, Musk told a crowd in Shanghai that he remains “confident” that Tesla will achieve “basic functionality for level five autonomy this year,” referring to the SAE’s rankings of autonomy. Tesla’s technology, in 2024, is still at level 2. This reminds me alot of the Thernos case where she tried to make the case not about fraud but about an overl…
If we started prosecuting CEOs who don't meet goals/expectations, they'd all be in prison. You have to prove Elon was intentionally lying, which I suspect many on this forum are sympathetic to that view, but in a fair court system that is a difficult standard. You'd have to have emails or some other hard evidence where he acknowledges he knows he's being untruthful. Short of that kind of evidence coming out, they are most likely going after him for political reasons.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#58About time.
I had a feeling this was coming. I bought FSD in 2020. It was $10K, and they were claiming in one year you could summon the car to come to you from across town or rent it out as a self-driving taxi service. I figured it might work, and in the meantime would be a fun toy, so I bought into it as a speculation. On an individual basis this was just poor judgement on my part, but when you multiply that by how many other c…
There isn't even a point to it if it requires you to keep your hands on the wheel and not look at your phone. I would want to use it so I could conduct business while the car took care of driving. If it still requires me to pay strict attention to the road and keep both hands on the wheel, then it's just a novelty to show off to passengers for a quick giggle, but not actually solving a problem.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#59The latest self driving is getting really good. My main problem is being a front seat driver and taking action because I’m not sure of it’s thought process but it ends up getting things correct. I think all these systems* could benefit from earlier braking to give the “supervisor” more piece of mind. * including my wife in this.
agree, half the people in this thread havnt used it. i think it's probably clear to most FSD testers that end-to-end NN trained on video will get you L5 eventually.
I've used it (this weekend, in fact). It's very impressive.
It remains a far cry from this, which Musk tweeted (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920) eight years ago:
> In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY.
Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people are really defensive about this. What's the big deal if X does well? Why are people so personally invested in pretending like Elon didn't do the world a huge service by removing Twitter from the control of possibly the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture in the entire country?
I can tell by the upvote/downvote dance on the parent comment - people love their celebrities. They get really mad if you talk bad about Elon Musk lol I find it quite pathetic personally. I of course disagree - I don't see the "huge service". Everything from defrauding investors, customers, speaking out of school (saying he's a physicist in the early days), hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell, stealing then tanking Te…
I'm not sure how you'd see the "dance" but anyway...
I'd hold the "visited decisive politics" hypothesis at a much higher probability over "celebrity parasocial loyalties" for down and up voting in this case.
That said, trying to guess at the motivations of the diverse crowd here is fraught at best.