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Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

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21–30 of 110 posts

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#21
> The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how

Well, I guess I'm not an anarchist then because I think it's already difficult when there's pressure to tell people what to do.

I do wish I'd agree with that though.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#22

>The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how. That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term. If you want the assumption to apply to the n…

Try Graeber and Wengrow's Dawn of Everything :)

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you are getting liberalism and "the left" confused

as do many left-wing political parties

well, they wouldn't be left wing if they presented centrist liberal ideals would they? you, too, may be confusing liberalism with leftism. almost as if it was the intended function of the liberal project...

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#24
post #15

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable. Reading the book f…

Anarchy probably works okay in low density areas rich in natural resources resulting in low competition.

The pastoral idyll, the hunter gatherers, etc. Once you get high density, anonymity, etc. that comes with towns and cities it probably breaks down quite a bit and you need a force to keep it from imploding.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#25

>The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how. That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term. If you want the assumption to apply to the n…

Compared to today? In the past century hundreds of millions of people have been slaughtered by states. Compare that with any "private sector" killing, now or in "early civilization" and the mounds of bodies are non-existent by comparison.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#26
post #15

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable. Reading the book f…

Rutger Bregman’s Humankind: A Hopeful History is also a good read for dispelling the common misconceptions regarding human behaviour.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as do many left-wing political parties

well, they wouldn't be left wing if they presented centrist liberal ideals would they? you, too, may be confusing liberalism with leftism. almost as if it was the intended function of the liberal project...

"Left" is a relative concept. The original French revolution left was liberalist. Liberalism is the core ideology of the current western world. Both Democrats and Republicans are liberalists. Even Putin is predominantly a liberalist.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#28
post #24
post #15

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable. Reading the book f…

Anarchy probably works okay in low density areas rich in natural resources resulting in low competition. The pastoral idyll, the hunter gatherers, etc. Once you get high density, anonymity, etc. that comes with towns and cities it probably breaks down quite a bit and you need a force to keep it from imploding.

Ancient Native Americans used to have an interesting system. Most of the year they would roam around in "anarchic" groups of 100-200. During the buffalo hunting season, hundreds of nomadic tribes would come together and build a tent city with thousands of individuals. They'd elect a tribe to "police" the hunt, effectively insuring that everyone got a fair split of meat, and other animal products. There was a rule where the same tribe couldn't be elected twice, so if someone took an issue with the way order was kept, they could wait until hunting season was over and volunteer their own tribe to police next year.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#29
post #15

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable. Reading the book f…

> I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable.

That's not surprising as the media, speaking generally, is a class which aligns itself closely with the ruling class and is incentivized to maintain the status quo.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#30
post #24
post #15

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable. Reading the book f…

Anarchy probably works okay in low density areas rich in natural resources resulting in low competition. The pastoral idyll, the hunter gatherers, etc. Once you get high density, anonymity, etc. that comes with towns and cities it probably breaks down quite a bit and you need a force to keep it from imploding.

Indeed, anarchy was the default state of human nature until communities reached Dunbar's number, i.e. around 150 people. Then, they did invent civilization for a reason!
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