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US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

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Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#51

Post by EMM_386 »

That's amazing.

It's terrifying to take a step back from this and think about how much incredibly sophisticated technology had to go into ensuring that we could wipe out the human race in minutes.

And then, of course, there's all the technology handling the safety guards. Because we obviously don't want to wipe out the human race in minutes, so we have all these protocols and failsafes to ensure that doesn't happen unless it's really supposed to happen.

All for ... nothing.

Nothing, in the sense that every time Russia built more ICBMs the US had to build more ICBMs. That tit-for-tat got to incredibly absurd levels.

So all of this ludicrously complex technologies, from the missiles travelling to space, the lauching of multiple guided warheads, the safety guards and nuclear weapons, the trillions of dollars ... for nothing. All a game of "mine is bigger than yours" for strategic deterence.

Hopefully it stays that way.

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#53

Post by office_drone »

EMM_386 wrote: post #51

That's amazing. It's terrifying to take a step back from this and think about how much incredibly sophisticated technology had to go into ensuring that we could wipe out the human race in minutes. And then, of course, there's all the technology handling the safety guards. Because we obviously don't want to wipe out the human race in minutes, so we have all these protocols and failsafes to ensure that doesn't happen u…

> ... had to go into ensuring that we could wipe out the human race in minutes.

That was never ensured. Historical casualty projections expected that, in the event of large scale nuclear attacks, the majority of the involved countries' populations would survive not only the attack but the conditions afterward.

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#54

Post by candiddevmike »

office_drone wrote: post #53
EMM_386 wrote: post #51

That's amazing. It's terrifying to take a step back from this and think about how much incredibly sophisticated technology had to go into ensuring that we could wipe out the human race in minutes. And then, of course, there's all the technology handling the safety guards. Because we obviously don't want to wipe out the human race in minutes, so we have all these protocols and failsafes to ensure that doesn't happen u…

> ... had to go into ensuring that we could wipe out the human race in minutes. That was never ensured. Historical casualty projections expected that, in the event of large scale nuclear attacks, the majority of the involved countries' populations would survive not only the attack but the conditions afterward.

For how much afterwards though?

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#55

Post by jrockway »

the_snooze wrote: post #35
jrockway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to destroy everyone else is what prevents them from destroying us. Something I think about and feel bad about is the "nuclear sponge". Why do we have a bunch of ICBMs in the midwest? So that if someone wants to nuke NYC, they have to nuke the Great Plains first, or face total destruction. Makes nuclear war that much more expensive. Of course, it's kind of an outdated assumption that that alone would be eno…

MAD makes sense if you assume the participants are rational and have accurate information. That's probably true on average in the long-run. But what bothers me is that it only takes one accident or miscalculation or crazy president to bring about the end of the world. And we've certainly had our fair share of close calls with bad sensor readings or training tapes being put into a live operational setting.

Yeah, I think MAD and "launch on warning" are distinct concepts. If we survive the first strike, we can rationally plan our second strike. So training tapes being played on the live system won't cause us to accidentally make a first strike; we can still assure destruction after taking a first strike. (That's why there's the nuclear triad.)

I think that "launch on warning" was an official policy at some point. I am not sure if it is anymore. I don't think it's a good one and it's not necessary to deter a first strike. The missiles are underground and at unknown locations in the ocean for that reason.

As for crazy presidents, yup, that is a legitimate concern. I am not sure why we put commanding the armed forces into the hands of one person. (The advantage is that one person can decisively retaliate after a surprise strike on Washington. The disadvantage is that a drunk Twitter war can escalate to ending the world. Sigh!)

As for irrational actors, that's another big problem. What does North Korea lose if they nuke the US? Not much; they don't have a huge economy as it is. It's a nice "fuck you" if the reigning dictator sees that the end of their regime is inevitable. MAD doesn't help with that at all.

It's all actually pretty scary. We like to think that the cold war is over, but really, not all the countries of the world are at peace right now, so everything could be over in the blink of the eye and you won't see it coming. I guess keep all that in mind as you plan your day!

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#56

Post by _boffin_ »

jabits wrote: post #45

This is a remarkably real view of the Minuteman Launch Control Center in the early to mid-80s for sure. The accompanying audio is realistic as well except all six comm systems would be blaring at once and several printers would be clacking away… It was very intense, demanding job. I was a Launch Control Officer for five years in the mid-80s out of FE Warren AFB in Cheyenne WY. My squadron was the 320th Strategic Miss…

Recommend any good non-fiction or even fiction books that talk about these experiences?

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#57

Post by jabits »

choeger wrote: post #50
jabits wrote: post #45

This is a remarkably real view of the Minuteman Launch Control Center in the early to mid-80s for sure. The accompanying audio is realistic as well except all six comm systems would be blaring at once and several printers would be clacking away… It was very intense, demanding job. I was a Launch Control Officer for five years in the mid-80s out of FE Warren AFB in Cheyenne WY. My squadron was the 320th Strategic Miss…

Considering that when the launch order came, MAD had probably already failed: Would you have obeyed the order and killed a few million people?

I’ve oftened wondered that over the years. Maybe that’s why the young ones are usually on the front lines. Another related possibly more difficult, is how many of us would have turned the key without prior world tensions occurring. Before each alert we received a pre-departure briefing on current world conditions. I think an out-of-the-blue order would have been very difficult… We periodically lost a crew member due to internal personal changes with respect to one’s willingness to follow through. One of my early Commanders pulled himself off and left the service to become a Greek Orthodox priest and is still at it today.

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#58

Post by robszumski »

I just finished reading Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen – it was great. The book walks through a minute by minute scenario from the second of launch through the satellite detection, alerting of forces, decision making challenges, evac and continuity of government during a nuclear exchange. Highly recommend.

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#59

Post by mtreis86 »

robszumski wrote: post #58

I just finished reading Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen – it was great. The book walks through a minute by minute scenario from the second of launch through the satellite detection, alerting of forces, decision making challenges, evac and continuity of government during a nuclear exchange. Highly recommend.

She was also recently on Hardcore History Addendum with Dan Carlin discussing the book.

Re: US ICBM Launch Center Virtual Tour

#60

Post by CapitalistCartr »

jabits wrote: post #45

This is a remarkably real view of the Minuteman Launch Control Center in the early to mid-80s for sure. The accompanying audio is realistic as well except all six comm systems would be blaring at once and several printers would be clacking away… It was very intense, demanding job. I was a Launch Control Officer for five years in the mid-80s out of FE Warren AFB in Cheyenne WY. My squadron was the 320th Strategic Miss…

Wow, I was there at the same time as a 46350. The Northern Tier was a (unappreciated) masterpiece of the Cold War.
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