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Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

dot.gov.in

61–70 of 70 posts

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#61
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I guess I was. In the US you see things like relatives of police officers not getting ticketed when they crash while driving drunk, for instance, and other sorts of selective non-enforcement of laws and sometimes selective enforcement based on the prejudices the enforcers. But I've never had to pay a bribe, and I don't know anyone else who's had to pay one either.

Well, it's for higher echelons, and in that level it's not even called a "bribe". You know, like having your company get huge commissions from the very business your war policies created, or having your friends in DC bail you out because you're "too big to fail", etc. E.g (Wikipedia): Halliburton has become the object of several controversies involving the 2003 Iraq War and the company's ties to former U.S. Vice Pres…

Yes, but equating these two things together is disingenuous. If you've ever been to a 3rd world country you'd know why.

I'm Lebanese(small country sandwiched between Israel and Syria that specializes in fighting proxy wars) and I've been around(not to the US, but to quite a few places in Europe as well as other Arab countries). Things are just not comparable from one place to another.

Yes, human nature is corrupt. Yes, with enough money you can buy people's consciences(at least a lot of them). But it's extremely different when it's systemic rather just one-off individuals being corrupt. Government employees here expect to be bribed, you literally cannot get anything done without bribery.

A few examples. I know quite a few engineers who work in construction, ask any of them and they'll tell you that they have a well-defined budget for bribes. Whenever there's a construction project anywhere, police officers will drop in for surprise inspections and expect to be bribed or else will stop work from getting done. Most of the time there are no violations, but they'll disrupt you enough that it's just cheaper to pay them off.

Another example, a friend of mine drives a motorcycle. They are actually quite rare here[1](and nobody bikes). This is due to the fact that road conditions and driving skills of people are really bad so it's extremely dangerous for anything that's smaller than a car to be on the road. We have a vehicle tax here and along with paying that tax you have to take your vehicle for a yearly inspection(it's one process). This is extremely streamlined for cars(as there are many of them and it has to be a fast process) so not much bribery to do there. But my friend tells me he pays about triple the actual tax where the rest if bribing people to accept his tax payments and confirm that he's had the bike inspected.

I've been to Syria a lot and it's even worse there. It starts right at the border. If you don't bribe the officer conducting the inspection they will just keep opening bags, laptops and asking you about every single detail of every single item and being general dicks until you pay them ~20$(a lot of money in Syria). I was at some point traveling there with a friend who didn't want to pay on principle, they held us up for ~3hrs at least and then he payed anyway.

The list goes on and on, and this is just for personal stuff. For doing business(getting stuff shipped, getting any kind of license, etc...) it's even worse. My friend's father is an executive in the local branch of a big multinational fast moving consumer goods company and he's told me that they have a lot of problems operating in these parts because they have a lot of internal policies that forbid them from doing a lot of things that are just facts of life here.

TL;DR corruption in the 3rd world is something that permeates almost everything that you do. Equating it with some individuals being corrupt and self-serving is just not right. You won't know what I mean until you've tried it I guess.

[1] Note: this does not include a lot and a lot of un-registered, illegally-aquired, scooters that are some of the most annoying as well as dangerous things on the road. These are mostly driven by poor people and immigrants who can't afford anything else. Unfortunately none of them have ever actually learned to drive and it shows. But most of them don't really have a choice so how to deal with them is not clear.

EDIT: fixed typos and grammar.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#63

And that my friends is one of the reasons why as an Indian I cannot live in my country. People are not mean there , but plain old stupid. Stupidity backed by authority. That DOT site. My god!

If this is a satirical remark about the US, I acknowledge your wit.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#64
post #3

I wonder how this could impact the Indian IT outsourcing industry. Will customers be happy to have the Indian government being able to peek into everything they do from India?

This may be one of the strongest arguments for stopping this. US companies will certainly not want their business to be compromised by competitors because of this rule.

US companies continue to do business in China even after their businesses have been compromised and knockoffs are being made because it's cheap to do so. They clearly do not have a problem with it as long as the price is low enough.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#65
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is from 2001, It can be verified by using google search with a date range. https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Individuals/Gro... My apologies for jumping the gun. Its easy to get confused as there was no date on that page.

Is the policy still applicable if it doesn't seem to be updated?

[deleted]

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#66
This came up at a meeting at EPIC a while back. Someone indicated it was one of various contradictory regulations by different agencies in India that aren't actually enforced. Still troubling, but more in the category of those weird laws that slip on the books and never get removed than an all out war on privacy there.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#67
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt. was not responsible for the IT revolution, it was mostly just entrepreneurs taking advantage of the opportunity. Don't expect much help/facilitation from them. However, once it was clear that IT was a job creator, many state govt. did start promoting it; but the extent is still unclear to me.

I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from. While the government isn't driving IT growth in India, it is still able to hinder it fairly effectively. After all, it is the government that must legislate the IT industry and the bureaucracy that must administer these laws. If this is the parlous state of both the government and the bureaucracy, then I suspect that growth will be hampered.

One of the reasons that IT took off in India was because it was not a sector recognized by the Indian govt. to be of any importance and was thus free from ridiculous laws that exist in other areas. Now that has changed, expect more boneheaded interference from them.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#68
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from. While the government isn't driving IT growth in India, it is still able to hinder it fairly effectively. After all, it is the government that must legislate the IT industry and the bureaucracy that must administer these laws. If this is the parlous state of both the government and the bureaucracy, then I suspect that growth will be hampered.

One of the reasons that IT took off in India was because it was not a sector recognized by the Indian govt. to be of any importance and was thus free from ridiculous laws that exist in other areas. Now that has changed, expect more boneheaded interference from them.

Came to say this.

The govts only contribution to IT was nothing. It's the best they could ever do. When it first started, back with modems which went to 14.4k, the fact that no one understood it or it's implications was the only reason it succeeded.

Otherwise the rent seekers or the security focused would have probably killed it at inception.

Re: Govt of India proposes to ban SSH (Or wants you to use 40 bit keys)

#69
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"20 years ago people where hailing the Internet as a bastion of freedom and espousing how it would liberate people around the world, it was supposed to be the death knell of censorship." But it still is. Now more than ever. It's toppled regimes, unmasked government secrets. If authorities try to take away what has once been given to the people, there will be protests.

People did those things, as we have done throughout history. To add meaning to your claim you would have to prove that the rate of regime toppling has dramatically increased since the advent of the internet. I am not saying it did not play a part or wasn't a key tool, but such things always start and succeed based upon the commitment and sacrifices of those willing to stand up to their oppressors. The internet is a t…

This is natural. So far the Internet has gone from : "geek toy" to useful tool to "ok we need to handle this"

It's taken governments time to wake up to it and to figure out how to handle it.

All governments around the world today no longer see the Internet as what technologists did. They see it as a threat. Theyve finally figured out what to do about it.

This was the end game visible from the start, the net makes it too easy for people to get together and as a result removes and creates its own power centers.

The state has to then assert its control over those centers and naturally they will do it by laws, and later by force.

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