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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI is applied broadly, for example here's a list of demographics targeted for DEI from one of Biden's executive orders [1]: The initiative will advance opportunity for communities that have historically faced employment discrimination and professional barriers, including: people of color; women; first-generation professionals and immigrants; individuals with disabilities; LGBTQ+ individuals; Americans who live in ru…

Unsurprisingly, "poor people" are not targeted for help.

Nor "people who are doing badly at school".

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI colors can be racist? This is ideological tea-leaf reading.

If you use black for “bad” or destructive operations and white for “good” or creative operations, you’re perpetuating literal anti-blackness.

You aren’t fooling anyone.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post I replied to talked about websites and they didn't say different colors were used in some circumstances, they literally mean different things. I'll quote it again. "UI colors can have different meanings in different cultures." And all the examples I gave have red meaning opposite things in user interfaces based on cultural assumptions. Off/danger. Number up/number down. Occupied/available. Websites were ju…

How do you know any of that is cultural and not just something due to arbitrary choices made a long time ago that became standards? If it was cultural then newer designs like computer interfaces would be affected. Also you ignored traffic lights.

> arbitrary choices made a long time ago that became standards

That sounds like a description of culture.

> If it was cultural then newer designs like computer interfaces would be affected.

Does the big TV run by a computer not count as an interface?

Okay, do you have some pictures of chinese stock websites?

> Also you ignored traffic lights.

What about them? Yes Japan uses the same color scheme as the US for traffic lights. Because the idea spread that way. I don't see how that's relevant to either of my examples that talked about Japan?

...you're not suggesting that one situation where colors match invalidates situations where colors are different, right?

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#764

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Calling "south Asia" the somewhat geographically and ethnically coherent region consisting of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan (excluding other parts of Asia that are located equally south because they are distinctly east or west) is a refreshingly objective naming. Maybe such a region is too large and diverse to be meaningful, but there's no reason to accuse anybody of confusing parts of the old…

In the US, “south asian” is fine. In the UK, there’s enough of each group where I think you should distinguish Indian versus Pakistani versus Bangladeshi. It’s not a group of people who want to be lumped together, same with Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese. They're also far less closely related to each other than say British people and French people.

> I think you should distinguish Indian versus Pakistani versus Bangladeshi. It’s not a group of people who want to be lumped together, same with Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese.

It is a very different situation though. 100 years ago, there was just one country, India – with a great deal of internal ethnic, linguistic, and religious diversity. And then, it was split into two over religion, and then one of those splits split again (due to a whole host of issues, although ethnicity and language were both significant factors). Whereas, China, Japan and Korea were distinct countries going back many centuries. You aren't comparing like and like here.

> They're also far less closely related to each other than say British people and French people.

In ethnic and linguistic terms, the majority populations of both Dhaka and Kolkata are basically the same people, the big difference is their religion (although Kolkata is 20% Muslim, and Dhaka around 3-4% Hindu). One can make similar points about the relationship between Lahore and Ludhiana. It is true that people in Dhaka and Lahore are not closely related, but the same is true between Kolkata and Ludhiana. The case of the British and French doesn't have any real parallels.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#765

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I’ve heard this same argument for DEI statements every time the topic has been debated: They sidestep arguments about DEI statements and instead retreat to safer arguments about how advancing DEI is a good thing. On one hand, I get it. Arguing for DEI in an abstract sense is much easier than arguing for specific interventions. On the other hand, this is the textbook example of a Motte-and-bailey fallacy, where the de…

Feels a little bit like making people take anti-theft pledges. I don't think anyone could reasonably expect that theft would be prevented by someone pledging not to engage in it yet it might be tricky to publicly remove because "what are you, pro-theft!?!" Similar to DEI training in general which doesn't appear to do too much. It should be argued that "we shouldn't do these trainings" yet you also don't want to be th…

But the problem is they can’t even get “diverse” right. Do they mean diverse in ideas? In thought? In opinion? No.

My LARGE company is on a tirade to ensure we use diverse supplies. We’re collecting metrics on this so we can proudly state how many diverse vendors we we use. When asked what we define as diverse they stated (among other things) that they were members of the LGBQ community. So I asked “so our company is very much concerned if the owners of the companies we work with are bisexual?”

Im married to a woman, but that doesn’t preclude the possibility that I’m bi-sexual. So if, in addition to being attracted to my wife, I’m also attracted to men, then all of a sudden I’m a priority for the company.

It boggles my mind.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#766

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Culture includes some of our most deep-down disgust responses. I have trouble even being at people’s houses if there’s dog hair on the couch or I can smell them. It’s coded to me as a dirty environment.

Not being a dog person doesn't make you a xenophobe! Lots of Americans don't like dogs. You are one of them.

Your first two sentences are true in general. But if you had ever met my mom you'd know my personal dislike of dogs is rooted in xenophobia.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#767

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The fact that you’re casually comparing differences between users of different races to the different between people with different education levels is remarkable. You think that race is so meaningful?

I think your background and experience is meaningful. And, like it or not, people of different races frequently have differing backgrounds and experiences.

How's that not just a justification for discriminating against people based on race? Unless you're going to assert that those "meaningful" differences in "background or experiences" are necessarily positive, which is completely illogical.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being a dog person doesn't make you a xenophobe! Lots of Americans don't like dogs. You are one of them.

Your first two sentences are true in general. But if you had ever met my mom you'd know my personal dislike of dogs is rooted in xenophobia.

As the owner of a bulldog that is essentially a furry, shedding alimentary canal with feet, I assure you there are perfectly legitimate reasons to find dogs unclean.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can guarantee you this is not the case, at least at the uni where I‘m doing my PhD. There is no name in the admission system, it‘s done automatically by grades or tests most of the time.

I don't see how you could possibly hire graduate students into a lab without knowing their research and publishing history (impossible to anonymize).

Academia certainly has its faults, but you won't find a field more accepting of diversity and hiring foreigners anywhere else.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#770
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I just meant to the story itself. NY Post and Unherd are low-quality sources given to beatups they think are in favour of their ideology. I am specifically sceptical that this is any sort of significant thing, let alone a huge deal. I'm not saying Unherd falsified quotes or anything, but I'm not at all convinced that this passes e.g. the Wikipedia "reliable sources" test of being worth mentioning in general (w…

It looks like the mainstream sources were just lagging behind the ideological vanguard, which makes sense since the latter care about it more. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/us/mit-diversity-statemen... I think you were right to be skeptical though—I had the same worry. Sometimes we wait until a story has had more independent verification, but in this case the community appetite to discuss it was so strong, I dec…

ok, NYT clearly passes :-)
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