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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#731
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, but it's still unhelpful performative posturing. There would be zero risk of confusion if it was called simply "Māori" or "the Māori language" instead, the way we do with every other language in the world.

> it's still unhelpful performative posturing Why exactly is it "unhelpful"? You say there's no risk of simply saying Maori - what is the risk in calling it what it's called?

It is a difficult adjustment for us here, especially for older generations, the change has been very dramatic.

"unhelpful" is a mild expression of discomfort

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#732
post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am assuming that there is vastly less to this than this particular cluster of publications, and too many of the commenters here, are getting themselves worked up about.

I'm not sure if you're questioning whether the story was true or whether it was important or whether it was offtopic for HN. If it was untrue, then we will have made a bad moderation call and should have waited. However, today has brought more 3rd party reports on the story, albeit still from ideologically slanted publications (e.g. https://nypost.com/2024/05/06/us-news/mit-bans-controversial... ), so I think the odd…

Sorry, I just meant to the story itself. NY Post and Unherd are low-quality sources given to beatups they think are in favour of their ideology.

I am specifically sceptical that this is any sort of significant thing, let alone a huge deal.

I'm not saying Unherd falsified quotes or anything, but I'm not at all convinced that this passes e.g. the Wikipedia "reliable sources" test of being worth mentioning in general (which Unherd probably wouldn't be and the NYP explicitly isn't).

Has anything mainstream covered it? I had a look in Google News for "MIT DEI" and it was overwhelmingly trash-tier sources of the Unherd/NYP level.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. They said UIs are different in different cultures because "red implies prosperity and vitality" so prove it. Show me some examples and evidence. Anyone can make claims based off of cliches, but when it comes time to back it up with real world examples everyone either goes silent or gets upset and makes the same claim more aggressively. Chinese historical art has a use of red due to cinnabar being believe…

The actual claim was "UI colors can have different meanings in different cultures." I don't know about that prosperity thing, but I can give you an example that happens a lot. Some groups use red to mean stopped and green to mean moving, while others use red to mean danger and moving, and green to mean safe and stopped. This isn't directly country-related but I believe there's significant variation based on location.…

I searched and I didn't see any examples of that. Oh, wait, I searched again and all I saw was the opposite. Oh, wait, I searched again and still found typical displays.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#734
post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of things have "said purpose" and the "real purpose" because of which such absolutely kafkaesque things survive in organizations. The said purpose of-course is to make sure that the candidate is "committed to diversity". We can argue all day on whether a statement is in any way good measure of it. It really isn't. I have helped people write such statements and we have always written it with cynicism and great c…

> A lot of things have "said purpose" and the "real purpose" because of which such absolutely kafkaesque things survive in organizations. I remember sitting in conference room once and between meetings we started discussing the MBA degree and how you often needed one to move up at big companies. I mused that I didn't understand why this was so important since an MBA program didn't teach you much that you couldn't lea…

At the large well known company where we worked we joked that we paid our +1s some money to sit through the course around diversity.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a non-white immigrant, I’m deeply suspicious of the notion that a team with me on it is in any way different than a team without me on it based on my skin color or ethnicity. I think that line of thinking doesn’t go anywhere good, especially for me, but for everyone else too. In various threads you've repeatedly argued (paraphrasing here) that you have a different set of values — e.g., giving higher priority to…

You’ve accurately described the differences, but none of those things are relevant to the workplace. All the ways I’m actually different from Americans are just a source of consternation where I have to bite my tongue and remind myself that it’s their country and I have to put up with the dog in the office, etc. As to “cheap to observe” information: you might observe that Asian and Mormon communities socialize people…

A few years ago I worked at a company that let people bring in dogs and I hated it. I actually like dogs and have had some myself (although not at that time), but one of my team members always brought in his huge rescue pitbull. It was always under control, never barked or lunged, but it liked to sit perfectly still, alert and upright giving me a death stare for hours at a time. All I could think was "this dog is probably not going to do anything, but if it snaps it could probably maim me in an instant."

How can I focus on work under circumstances like that? But how can I complain when it hasn't actually done anything yet? I would be "that guy." Now dog policy is something I pay attention to when choosing jobs.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual claim was "UI colors can have different meanings in different cultures." I don't know about that prosperity thing, but I can give you an example that happens a lot. Some groups use red to mean stopped and green to mean moving, while others use red to mean danger and moving, and green to mean safe and stopped. This isn't directly country-related but I believe there's significant variation based on location.…

I searched and I didn't see any examples of that. Oh, wait, I searched again and all I saw was the opposite. Oh, wait, I searched again and still found typical displays.

Here's a couple. I searched for nyse display and china stock market display. There's a lot of examples when you do those searches.

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JH281_0708NY_M_...

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/A14FJ5/a-screen-with-the-market-sh...

You can also do a text search for china red green stocks, or japan red green stocks.

Bonus fun fact: If the little display on the taxi in japan is red, that means available, and green means occupied.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#737
post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lay it at Google and Facebook's feet by the property of 'To whom the wealth is redistributed, also inherits the responsibility.' They've raked in a huge percentage of the ad spend that moved digital (from print). And they've done what with it? They fundamentally don't want to be in the business of journalism, because it's a terrible business . So they don't create content, which now means no one does. (And that's n…

Most of the revenue from AdSense etc. goes to the site, i.e. if there are Google ads on a newspaper's website, the newspaper is getting more of the advertiser's money than Google. The problem is this is less money than they used to get, and a lot of the sites aren't journalistic outlets, so the money gets spread pretty thin. In theory Google and Facebook could use their cut to fund journalism, but is that really what…

Do you have a breakdown in terms of ad host vs ad platform?

We know ad host revenue generated from e.g. Google Ads.

We know CPC to advertisers.

We know Google's top line ad revenue.

But I haven't seen the margin Google et al. take out of the transaction. (CPC - host revenue) / CPC

> In theory Google and Facebook could use their cut to fund journalism, but is that really what we want? The vast majority of journalism funded (and therefore controlled) by a small handful of megacorps?

I'd prefer that? It isn't that different than the historical funding model (plus loose regulation of what a newsroom meant).

> Far better to make it sustainable for individual independent journalists to make living.

I think that's apples and oranges.

The "we have a news budget that can afford to pay a stringer or correspondent to do first-party reporting and/or investigative journalism" type organization is disappearing.

Citizen journalism is important too, but I don't think it's a replacement for the above.

As I heard quipped, "Nobody goes to every local council meeting and takes written notes, so they can catch the 1-2 agenda items a year that should be big local stories."

And absent that (or similar on an international stage), we lose transparency.

We've seen how citizen coding in open source has blind spots where security/cryptography is concerned, and I'd argue we run similar risks relying solely on citizen journalists.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#738
post #467

DEI is a strange issue in that nearly everybody agrees that it's a good target to aim for yet any action taken to get there is discrimination. I frankly see it as a cheap shortcut that some very privileged people want to take to try to wash away the sins of our racist past, not to help people, but to make ourselves feel better- or attempt to.

> nearly everybody agrees that it's a good target to aim for You mean nearly everybody agrees in your circle, because you can easily find strong opposition if you bother to look. And that’s after making saying the opposite out loud a career-ending offense in lots of places, kinda hard to not agree with it if you want to remain employable.

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#739
post #91

One thing I've found useful in parsing modern news is to remember: A pile of extreme occurrences does not an argument make. Because there's insane stuff happening somewhere, to someone, all the time. With the benefit of digitized news we've enabled lazy trawls to create a pile of "Look at how extreme and crazy ____ is!" to support any viewpoint on any topic. Anti-gun? Here's some insane gun owners. Pro-gun? Here's so…

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#740
post #91

One thing I've found useful in parsing modern news is to remember: A pile of extreme occurrences does not an argument make. Because there's insane stuff happening somewhere, to someone, all the time. With the benefit of digitized news we've enabled lazy trawls to create a pile of "Look at how extreme and crazy ____ is!" to support any viewpoint on any topic. Anti-gun? Here's some insane gun owners. Pro-gun? Here's so…

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