Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 61 posts

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#11

Post by kjellsbells »

beardyw wrote: post #4
chrisjj wrote: post #3

Another clickbait article title. Shame on you BBC. Not fake. "Balsamic vinegar that is not labelled "tradizionale" (traditional) is a blend of wine vinegar and grape must, made from grapes with no particular provenance and aged in wooden or steel barrels for just a few months."

So what would make it fake?

There's fake as in "this product is not any kind of vinegar" and fake as is "this vinegar has not been produced in the canonical way, in the canonical place".

Italy has local standards called, DOP and IGP, if I recall correctly. DOP is the elite stuff. You dont put this on salads. Some varieties are almost gel like. This is the stuff that was sitting in someones attic for ten years. IGP is still good but not as good, and it still has to come from the right region. Costco in the US sells Kirkland balsamic vinegar di Modena, and it is IGP. You can imagine that at Costco scale, it is not sitting in someones attic. This is still excellent, by the way.

Then there is all the rest, that claims to be balsamic vinegar, but was produced to meet high scale, low price points.

The article is simply saying that what you likely buy in the supermarket is unlikely to be DOP and might not even be IGP. Thats not really news.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#12

Post by 0x457 »

beardyw wrote: post #5

I read that probably all truffle oil is fake. Hard to find a definitive statement.

Truffle oil you buy at the store, never been within miles from a real truffle. It's an oil that made to smell and taste "kinda" like truffle. The label is clear about that.

It's not fake in the same way it's talked about fake balsamic vinegar in this article.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#13

Post by lbwtaylor »

I'm surprised the article makes no mention of lead.

>> Aged vinegars, favored by gourmets and sometimes costing $100 a bottle, contain more lead than the quicker brewed, less expensive kinds. For three imported varieties tested in 2002, people who eat one tablespoon per day would be exposed to seven to 10 times the maximum daily level of lead set by California.

https://www.ehn.org/special-report-some-vinegars-often-expen...

Artisanal production is very interesting and can be great, but not always.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#14

Post by lisper »

lbwtaylor wrote: post #13

I'm surprised the article makes no mention of lead. >> Aged vinegars, favored by gourmets and sometimes costing $100 a bottle, contain more lead than the quicker brewed, less expensive kinds. For three imported varieties tested in 2002, people who eat one tablespoon per day would be exposed to seven to 10 times the maximum daily level of lead set by California. https://www.ehn.org/special-report-some-vinegars-often-e…

A tablespoon of traditional balsamic is a huge portion. The stuff is typically served with an eyedropper.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#15

Post by skywhopper »

Truly bad headline here. There is a type of “traditional” balsamic vinegar that follows very specific guidelines. But so long as it’s not labeled as “tradizionale” and doesn’t claim to be from this region, then it’s not “fake”.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#16

Post by IshKebab »

beardyw wrote: post #4
chrisjj wrote: post #3

Another clickbait article title. Shame on you BBC. Not fake. "Balsamic vinegar that is not labelled "tradizionale" (traditional) is a blend of wine vinegar and grape must, made from grapes with no particular provenance and aged in wooden or steel barrels for just a few months."

So what would make it fake?

If it wasn't balsamic vinegar at all. This is just saying it isn't high quality balsamic vinegar from Moderna.

This is just about protected names. If you make champagne but you don't do it in Champagne then it is "fake champagne", but if you make cheddar but not in Cheddar then it's "real".

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#17

Post by chongli »

technotarek wrote: post #8
nimbius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

id venture anything under $200/oz USD is fake. it is generally sourced as a byproduct of the petrochemical industry.

Whenever I see statements like this that correlate price and product quality (eg wine, spirits), I’m always wondering why a “fake” wouldn’t just elevate its price to the level of the non-fake. I have a feeling most customers won’t know the difference. I guess I’m just skeptical of using price as a proxy where everything from a fancy-looking label to a nice marketing campaign will inflate the price.

At the higher price points there is margin available for quality assurance, certification of origin, and testing by experts.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#18

Post by lisper »

0x457 wrote: post #12
beardyw wrote: post #5

I read that probably all truffle oil is fake. Hard to find a definitive statement.

Truffle oil you buy at the store, never been within miles from a real truffle. It's an oil that made to smell and taste "kinda" like truffle. The label is clear about that. It's not fake in the same way it's talked about fake balsamic vinegar in this article.

I was recently traveling in New Zealand and had an opportunity to visit the Te Puke truffle farm. They explained why truffle oil is not made by infusing truffles in oil: it's because truffles can harbor botulism, which is anaerobic, and so dunking a truffle in oil creates a perfect environment for botulism to thrive. "Fake" truffle oil is a feature, quite literally not a bug.

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#19

Post by cogman10 »

beardyw wrote: post #4
chrisjj wrote: post #3

Another clickbait article title. Shame on you BBC. Not fake. "Balsamic vinegar that is not labelled "tradizionale" (traditional) is a blend of wine vinegar and grape must, made from grapes with no particular provenance and aged in wooden or steel barrels for just a few months."

So what would make it fake?

A better question to ask is "what makes it real".

The problem I have with "fake" and "real", particularly with Italian and French goods, is there's often a "Produced from this region by these people" incorporated into the definition of "real".

This is very apparent when you look into things like "Mozzarella". Italy would have you believe that mozzarella could only be produced in Italy as if the region somehow blesses the cheese with magic properties. The reality is the mozzarella is just renat + milk. The only arguable difference is which animal milk is used (for most, it's beef).

If the breakdown process of balsamic vinegar ends up producing a chemically and flavor profile identical to just red wine vinegar and grape must, then who cares if it's "fake"?

Re: Balsamic vinegar is likely fake

#20

Post by 0x457 »

technotarek wrote: post #8
nimbius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

id venture anything under $200/oz USD is fake. it is generally sourced as a byproduct of the petrochemical industry.

Whenever I see statements like this that correlate price and product quality (eg wine, spirits), I’m always wondering why a “fake” wouldn’t just elevate its price to the level of the non-fake. I have a feeling most customers won’t know the difference. I guess I’m just skeptical of using price as a proxy where everything from a fancy-looking label to a nice marketing campaign will inflate the price.

Specifically with truffle oil - its taste profile is so noticeable different, that unless you never had a real truffle, it would be easy to spot.

As for different things, about 7 years ago in LA there was as huge wine counterfeit operation bust. Expensive bottles were filled with cheaper wine, re-corked and sold. This is why expensive bottles now "destroyed" one way or another.

Point is - easier to sell and fewer troubles.

Post reply on HN