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How I think about debt

collabfund.com

31–40 of 445 posts

Re: How I think about debt

#31
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the "The more debt you have, the less financially resilient you are" was the more important message.

But this isn’t true, one has to consider the debt ratio, not just the debt. Someone with a million dollars of debt is financially resilient if they have a debt ratio of .1

Debt to income or debt to asset is the only way of evaluating if someone's debt is high or low. I thought it was obvious that's what GP meant.

Re: How I think about debt

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You simply restructured your debt and borrowed from parents instead, no? That is to say, you owe them for those ten years. Not saying there’s anything wrong with it. Most people in average circumstances owe a lot to their parents.

>> You simply restructured your debt and borrowed from parents instead, no? >> That is to say, you owe them for those ten years. To me that seems like a strange take on it. I saw no indication of a debt owed in the GPs comment.

I think the OP used "owe" in the second dictionary sense:

2: to be attributable an idea that owes to Greek philosophy

Re: How I think about debt

#33

This guy's entire life (He's a VC) is about pushing debt in the form of promissory notes and equity-debt onto companies in exchange for his own ownership How does he reconcile the fact that the companies he lauds in the beginning, would completely shun any business with him (an investor) for precisely the reasons described? I feel like investors and VC are unaware of their own values

> This guy's entire life (He's a VC) is about pushing debt in the form of promissory notes and equity-debt onto companies in exchange for his own ownership

There's a difference between business finance and personal finance. There's a difference between what needs to be done to start a business and what needs to be done to keep it going.

Apple started in a garage, but it is no longer run out of one. Apple started with loans and investors, Apple now has a large pile of cash (though also bonds that it needs to pay).

Re: How I think about debt

#34

Today, I started picking up what I started some time back -- the book “Debt: The First 5,000 Years” by David Graeber goes deep into the details of Debt. I've heard good reviews and I hope this is a good book as they say. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

It is

Re: How I think about debt

#35
The core (flawed) assumption is that a thousand year business is desirable. As a business owner and a worker I don’t want to work in my great, great grand pappy’s toothpick company.

I want to have opportunities to create my own business, make profit, enjoy profit, hand modest generational wealth to my descendants and die without regrets.

Thousand year business are not the way to achieve my goals and my goals are not incomplete with debt.

I hold debt on my house. My future is tied to that debt and I wouldn’t have it another way (I mean unless you want to pay off my house).

Re: How I think about debt

#36
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Dave Ramsey was pretty much completely wrong about student loan debt, at least if I remember his position on it being "you shouldn't have student loans". But I agree that most debt is probably bad to have.

It might be extreme but 15 years ago he was telling people not to be so flippant about taking on enormous amounts of debt for degrees with a questionable payback and I think he was right. I always thought the snowball method was dumb but as time goes on I can see how it makes sense psychologically, even if not mathematically.

Sure, I've said a few negative things about Ivy Leagues being overpriced here in the last few weeks, so I'm not saying you should necessarily get into $400,000 of student loan debt.

What I didn't like about his take was that it also kind of also excluded getting into like $20,000-$40,000 of debt to go to a decent state school. That's a bad take; getting a degree (at least in a technical field) substantially increases your earning potential, and while $40,000 is a lot of money, it's not out of reach for virtually anyone working in tech or engineering or something adjacent, at least not in the US.

I guess my frustration with his perspective is that it felt extremely reductive; he acts like the only student loan debt you can get into is Harvard-level stuff, but I think that's just not true, and not even the average case. Most people don't get into Harvard, (I think) most people who go to college end up at a state or local university, and as such they're not getting into the obscene levels of debt that you'd get from these yuppie private schools, particularly if they state within state.

Re: How I think about debt

#37
post #6

I don't think all debt is equal, and I don't think all debt hurts your ability to handle volatility. I have a 30 year mortgage on my house with a 2.75% interest rate. That has effectively given myself "rent control"; outside of a potential rise of property taxes, my "rent" payment will not exceed a certain number of dollars. That means that if the housing prices rise rapidly, I'm covered. If I had decided not to leve…

> I have a 30 year mortgage on my house with a 2.75% interest rate.

The author on paying down his mortgage:

> It just increased our independence, even if it made no sense on paper. So that's another element of debt that I think goes misunderstood. And a lot of that for both of those points is this idea that people don't make financial decisions on a spreadsheet. They don't make them in Excel. They make financial decisions at the dinner table. That's where they're talking about their goals and their own different personalities and their own unique fears and their own unique skills and whatnot. So that's why I kind of push people to say like, it's okay to make financial decisions that don't make any sense on paper if they work for you, if they check the boxes of your psychology and your goals that makes sense for you. And for me, extreme aversion, what looks like an irrational aversion today, and I would say is an irrational aversion to debt, is what works for me and what makes me happy, so that's why I've done it.

* https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/128

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSaRb-iFwPA

Re: How I think about debt

#38
post #6

I don't think all debt is equal, and I don't think all debt hurts your ability to handle volatility. I have a 30 year mortgage on my house with a 2.75% interest rate. That has effectively given myself "rent control"; outside of a potential rise of property taxes, my "rent" payment will not exceed a certain number of dollars. That means that if the housing prices rise rapidly, I'm covered. If I had decided not to leve…

Are you going to live in that house for 30 years? What’s your plan when you need to move?

Even if I don't stay in the house for thirty years, it's still better as long as I stay for awhile. When I'm paying my mortgage payments, I'm building some degree of equity into the house, so the only "wasted" money is whatever I pay to interest.

So my plan if I move is exactly what it sounds like: I sell the house and then buy a new one wherever I'm moving to. As long as I'm staying for like 5+ years at that location I think it's still worth it.

Re: How I think about debt

#39
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the "The more debt you have, the less financially resilient you are" was the more important message.

But this isn’t true, one has to consider the debt ratio, not just the debt. Someone with a million dollars of debt is financially resilient if they have a debt ratio of .1

If your other millions are not liquid then the one million of debt is still a potentially significant liability when adverse events happen. If it is liquid then why bother borrowing for something so small? The spent cash can be replenished quickly when there are no debt payments.
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