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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#821

Post by cm2187 »

xenospn wrote: post #582
runarberg wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…

The US has killed over 400,000 Iraqis since invading Iraq. Do you think that qualifies as genocide?

You may confuse the deaths of the sunni-shia civil war with deaths under US fire. Saddam Hussein like Gaddafi would have died sooner or later. To me there is nothing that suggests that these civil wars wouldn't have happen sooner or later, like in Yugoslavia.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#822

Post by sanderjd »

vharuck wrote: post #809
jajko wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as it hurts even writing it, I don't think its a rare story there these days. History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other

>History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other There are four sides here: the Israeli government, Hamas, Israeli citizens, and Palestinian citizens. The first two are the active combatants. The third group were victims in October. The fourth group are still victims today. Killing unarmed and non-hostile citizens is absolutely immoral. Acting in such a reckless…

I think this is absolutely right, so please don't take this as a disagreement with the point you made.

But what I think a lot about is the precursor years to these kinds of events. I have a deep well of sympathy for the people of Gaza who have long despised being governed by Hamas, but haven't been able to figure out how to throw them off. They knew Hamas was a disaster waiting to happen, they could see it coming, but still couldn't stop it. And just the same for the opposition in Israel, who have come so close to getting rid of Netanyahu and his ilk on so many occasions. They knew he was a disaster waiting to happen too.

I just recently had a friend tell me that many of their Israeli friends and family are leaving the country in disgust. But of course that means that they won't be there to vote against Netanyahu. By losing, he wins.

And some of the leaders of Hamas, watching from other countries as the people of Gaza are slaughtered, also get to enjoy the spectacle of young people in the west hoisting their flags and chanting their slogans. By losing, they win too.

But what's maddening is that seeing disasters waiting to happen doesn't make it easy to keep them from happening. It can be obvious that it's a disaster waiting to happen to have a presidential candidate in the US refuse to accept the results of elections, and openly plan for an authoritarian consolidation of power, and that might make it less likely to happen, it might make it easier to stop it, but still not easy.

Obvious encroaching disasters can still happen, and frequently do. I hate that!

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#823

Post by DEADMINCE »

mrkeen wrote: post #562
DEADMINCE wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I kind of think censorship would be a positive thing when applied to people lacking education. Where to draw the line is the issue, but at the least maybe people who didn't finish highschool or get a GED or equivalent shouldn't be exposed to conspiracy theories that they then act on.

Education doesn't make for a good cutoff. > We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. > In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available -- the World Trade…

There is more to education than college education.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#824

Post by DEADMINCE »

_lvbh wrote: post #392
DEADMINCE wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I kind of think censorship would be a positive thing when applied to people lacking education. Where to draw the line is the issue, but at the least maybe people who didn't finish highschool or get a GED or equivalent shouldn't be exposed to conspiracy theories that they then act on.

What a dystopian idea. I understand the reasoning but that is an extremely slippery slope for the rich to control the poor

It's more about the educated controlling the dangerously ignorant.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#825

Post by ajsnigrutin »

twixfel wrote: post #652
kragen wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i did and do. banning your citizens from reading the 'propaganda' of your enemy reduces them to subjects and foments further armed conflict. it's also a power invariably used to avoid accountability for petty corruption such as beria's garden full of young, beautiful women

[flagged]

Yes, they should read about how putin has only thre days of supplies left and not worry about the war, because it'll be over by the weekend.

Oh wait, those articles were from 2022:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-food-...

Why not ban Independent too?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#826

Post by Clubber »

pdinny wrote: post #814
dudeinjapan wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering what happened in Germany the last time it held mass gatherings to protest against Jews, better to err on the side of caution.

This type of conflation is extremely dangerous. Criticism of the actions of the government of Israel is not the same thing as anti-semitism (a real and very bad thing). To make this claim essentially gives the government of Israel the go ahead to do absolutely anything without any possibility of criticism, because that criticism is never engaged with on the basis of its content but dismissed as anti-semitism.

>Criticism of the actions of the government of Israel is not the same thing as anti-semitism

Unfortunately, it seems the protesters themselves often don't make the distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#828

Post by cm2187 »

hardlianotion wrote: post #707
angra_mainyu wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has done the same with Russia. Also, I think a few other Arab countries like Egypt have blocked/banned Al Jazeera.

If you believe that RT is an organisation that is not interested in the truth, but is set up purely to disrupt and disturb, then a government can reasonably want to prevent its operation. Adding plausible noise to information causes people to have to do much more work to discern between what is true and what is not, time that many people do not have. A reluctance to ban a bad-faith organisation is good: a moral socie…

I think if you ask the average conservative voter, they would argue the New York Times is a bad faith organisation, uninterested in the truth if it contradicts its narrative, and trying to disrupt and divide. That's why the state should be nowhere near any power to curb political speech. If you would like to shut down a news outlet you don't like, ask yourself if you would like Trump to have that same power.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#829

Post by dTal »

kragen wrote: post #605
dlubarov wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few questioned Ukraine's decision to ban RT's operations. This doesn't seem terribly different - Al Jazeera has very deep ties to Hamas, the enemy Israel is at war with, and has arguably been acting as their mouthpiece for propaganda.

i did and do. banning your citizens from reading the 'propaganda' of your enemy reduces them to subjects and foments further armed conflict. it's also a power invariably used to avoid accountability for petty corruption such as beria's garden full of young, beautiful women

An important distinction must be drawn between suppressing distribution, and "banning your citizens from reading". In fact it is not illegal to possess or read RT content, nor even for that matter to share it on social media. It is not secret. All that has been done is to remove a propagandist with a megaphone from the town square.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#830

Post by lyu07282 »

jajko wrote: post #729
oefrha wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn that was a difficult read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Al-Dahdouh 2023-10-28: Wife, 15-year-old son, 7-year-old daughter, a grandson and seven other relatives killed in strike on refugee camp. 2023-12-15: Wounded by missile during filming, cameraman fatally wounded and bled to death with ambulances cut off. 2024-01-07: Eldest son, a journalist, killed in air strike. 2024-01-08: Two nephews killed. 2024-01…

As much as it hurts even writing it, I don't think its a rare story there these days. History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other

I don't think so, it's rare that you have such an extreme power imbalance in conflict, only for it then to be viewed as "both sides are equally bad" a hundred years later. We just have a skewed perspective on the proportionality of violence -in the present day-, we tend to gain context over time. Like we can judge a larger struggle over many decades as a congruent whole, instead of only the narrow present instance of a conflict.

This also explains why there are so many historical examples of people in the past seemingly be so obviously on the "wrong side of history". It's not that they didn't have largely the same morals than most people today, it's more a cognitive dissonance.

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