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Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

openssf.org

281–290 of 379 posts

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're going overboard on what's required. Take anybody who is simultaneously offered a substantial monetary incentive (let's say 4 years of total current/vesting comp), and also threatened with the release of something that we'll say is little more than moderately embarrassing. And this dev is being asked to do something that stands basically 0 risks of consequences/exposure for himself due to plausible deni…

This doesn't look intentional at all, because this is basically like how 90% of memory disclosure bugs look

I suppose the point is that even though any given instance of an error like this is overwhelmingly likely to be an innocent mistake, there is some significant probability that one or two such instances were introduced deliberately with plausible deniability. Although this amounts to little more than the claim that "sneaky people might be doing shady things, for all we know", which is true in most walks of life.

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defining constants for 0-999 That person might just be an old school Java <5 developer.

That person might just be a regular Java developer who works on a project which onboarded Checkstyle, and can't disable it's MagicNumber check. https://checkstyle.sourceforge.io/checks/coding/magicnumber....

Oh, now I get why you need those constants:

  var secondsPerWeek = Math.pow(2, SEVEN) * Math.pow(THREE, THREE) * Math.pow(FIVE, 2) * SEVEN

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia, China, Iran and NK cock-block development for years, because the MR “doesn’t represent their interests”.

Sounds a lot like how web standards work!

Apple’s behaviour specifically

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#284
post #229
post #13

Maybe we need a reporting system for maintainer changes of bigger projects. Some list where they get published and people can keep an eye on it. Those changes of maintainers need to be synced to package distribution sites like npm.js or Debian packages and put in context with versions/releases. In Europe this was introduced for banks after the banking crisis. If a bank does any organizational change, a report is sent…

Is it really though? Cum-ex and cumcum appear to still work great.

Cum-ex is about taxes (and criminal law). It's unrelated to the stability of banks.

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also struck me as a bit odd.. even more so when you consider that over recent years, eclipse's general usage over time has decreased

Are OpenSFF members using Eclipse sub-projects in the financial services industry? In automotive/embedded, Eclipse hosts the safety-certified OSS ThreadX RTOS (formerly Azure RTOS), which runs on 10B+ devices, https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eclipse-foundation-showcases-...

Ahhh, I was thinking they were just funding the IDE.

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#286
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> three JS projects were targeted in failed attempts. Suspected to be targetted, in a way that seems to have 0% chance of succeeding for almost any project. Which is why nothing happened.

> seems to have 0% chance of succeeding for almost any project. Its obviously more than 0% given xz was successfully taken over and backdoored. Even a 5% chance of malicious takeover per project would make the situation pretty worrying given how many well funded, motivated government agencies are out there.

I'm not talking about xz, I'm talking about that OpenJS thing: random people emailing out of the blue "plz gimme maintainer". Entirely different situation.

I did quote the "three JS projects were targeted in failed attempts" bit, which should have made that abundantly clear.

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#287
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ideal state is having the world's superpowers all devoting effort to improving open source libraries, but all catching each others' backdoors and at the end of the day improving security for everyone.

This has been quietly happening for a good while...

I wouldn't say so.

* Bruce Schneier writing about the NSA: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/05/govern...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullrun_(decryption_program)

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#288
post #21

i dont think maintainer changes is even the endgame for this stuff. its hard to get a new person in, but a nation state can likely more trivially attack a current maintainer.. everyone has a button somewhere. the only solution to this is tooling which can flawlessly reason about code changes being malicious or not, being applied to every change in a project. and then still its a lost cause. a lot of issues and vilner…

> it should be easier to write systems from scratch, rather than to have to use third party code for everything. computers currently are not condusive to this. they need to be built different, to allow software to be built different. Yes. We also need to encourage user scripting of first party library APIs on devices. iOS Shortcuts are a step in the right direction, but they need better tooling to maintain and distri…

theres definitely improvements ofcourse. apple is not wrong trying to have more of the chain as a single vendor. i would hope amd/intel and such places might offer more help also to implement their devices easily. (implementing amd64 is really difficult imho, only acpi has some good code from the vendor and thats such a small part of whats needed).

we know kot to build a house on a bad foundation, but somehow built our techstack on a flimsy one (no one to blame, just times changing..). reinventing the wheel is the way to go, but ofcourse commercially and maybe generally kind of inviable as likely it would breal everything. i hope as stuff moves forward perhaps theres some tech leap that would allow this to naturally happen. some other architecture or so which is better and requires the rethink/rewrite.

i spend my days trying to reason about different foundations (software/firmware), but its an impossible mission, and for me merely a thought excersize. cant expect anything practical to come out of it unfortunately. and i think this last part is part of the issue. 'open source' has not the resources to fix the issues we are facing. its not meant to.

Re: Social engineering takeovers of open source projects

#290

So next the attackers playing the long game will just set out to develop the next great everybody-uses-it open-source library, so they control it from inception? Great that we'll finally get state-sponsored open-source development :D

> Great that we'll finally get state-sponsored open-source development :D

Suspicions are very old: "Report of FBI back door roils OpenBSD community" (2010)- https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/report-of-fbi-back-door-ro...

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