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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#711

Post by cpursley »

mrtksn wrote: post #695
guappa wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit ironic how we are constantly reminded that china isn't a democracy because they have censorship, while we are free and democratic and don't have censorship (except we do). Italy is passing laws to be able to block websites within 30 minutes, without any oversight from any judge. (more details here, link in italian https://stop-piracy-shield.it/ )

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

What about all the misleading news (i.e., positive spin) in the Western world's "free press" that lead to many believing that Ukraine had a chance for a counter offensive (against even basic military thinking and logic). Didn't that lead to unnecessary suffering and deaths during war time (vs say an alternative, beefing up defense lines)?

That's just a random recent example. Another older one is the the media going nuts over "WMDs", leading to an unnecessary US invasion and millions of deaths. My point being is that even free press can spread bad ideas and narratives - in fact, it frequently does. And those ideas should be able to be challenged, at any time, by any source.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#712

Post by mrtksn »

logicchains wrote: post #700
mrtksn wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

>I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time If you allow this then the government will just forever find excuses to be at war.

We live in a broken world, there are no perfect solutions. But I would argue that staying alive comes as a primary priority.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#713

Post by guappa »

mrtksn wrote: post #695
guappa wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit ironic how we are constantly reminded that china isn't a democracy because they have censorship, while we are free and democratic and don't have censorship (except we do). Italy is passing laws to be able to block websites within 30 minutes, without any oversight from any judge. (more details here, link in italian https://stop-piracy-shield.it/ )

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

Is italy at war? I must have missed the memo.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#714

Post by mrtksn »

cpursley wrote: post #711
mrtksn wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

What about all the misleading news (i.e., positive spin) in the Western world's "free press" that lead to many believing that Ukraine had a chance for a counter offensive (against even basic military thinking and logic). Didn't that lead to unnecessary suffering and deaths during war time (vs say an alternative, beefing up defense lines)? That's just a random recent example. Another older one is the the media going n…

what a starange statement about the counterattack, as if there was a definite knowledge about the future and the Western propaganda suppressed it.

They attempted at taking back their own lands and they failed. The same people claiming to know the future also used to claim that Russia would not attack and later that Ukraine will fall in matter of days.

Maybe just stop listening to fortune tellers.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#715

Post by guappa »

mrtksn wrote: post #712
logicchains wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time If you allow this then the government will just forever find excuses to be at war.

We live in a broken world, there are no perfect solutions. But I would argue that staying alive comes as a primary priority.

Ah yes the "we must kill them, to stay alive" narrative. It has never been abused in the whole history of mankind.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#716

Post by wslh »

NewJazz wrote: post #499
wslh wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What does that have to do with my comment? BTW October 7th is decidedly not the root of this war, just a dark event in a series of atrocities that have occurred during the last 70+ years.

You can put the root of the problem whenever you want in the last thousand years.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#717

Post by farseer »

kmeisthax wrote: post #653
farseer wrote: post #618

They can ban whatever they want, after all its a democracy only in name. I'd be far more concerned about Israel using its direct influence or its proxies to ban TikTok in the United States.

If you want to play conspiracy theorist, the correct conspiracy is that Mark Zuckerberg is responsible for the TikTok ban bill, given that he was lobbying for it.

Your conspiracy theory can co-exist with mine :) I believe multiple parties want TikTok banned for their own reasons.

However I am hearing more and more people mention TikTok and Israel together inside congressional circles than mentions of "TikTok and China". Here is an example: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#718

Post by mrtksn »

guappa wrote: post #713
mrtksn wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also quite concerned about the Western world adopting the Chinese style of governance but censorship at wartime is very different from censorship at peace time. False information leading to spreading misguided ideas is deadly at wartime because there is no time to address it. I definitely don’t support Italy blocking websites or the US blocking apps.

Is italy at war? I must have missed the memo.

It’s not at war, that’s why I don’t support such a thing.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#720

Post by brnt »

benja123 wrote: post #697
cies wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After rt.com et al were blocked in the EU they also kept working for a few more week/months before I had to use a mirror/VPN to read the new paper of "the enemy". Side note: I though being able to read the news of the enemy was testimony to the moral high ground of a "modern free and democratic society". No more moral high ground if you are trying to shape the perception of the public with censorship.

I personally don't support blocking Al Jazeera. It's not that I'm a fan of them or any news station operated under a dictatorship without free press. It's clear that Al Jazeera acts as the propaganda wing of the Qatari government, and Qatar, being one of the main sponsors of Hamas, uses it to effectively spread Hamas propaganda. However, the real question is what does blocking them achieve. Does it stop their influen…

> Does it make them harder to watch here? No.

Of course it does? Most people are not going to go out of their way for it unless they have specific reasons to do so. What's on/available by default matters. (Ask any UX specialist.)

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