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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#581

Post by dlubarov »

kragen wrote: post #454
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

> That's correct and IMHO [censorship is] the right thing to do when shooting begins it's been a common observation since aischylos that the truth is the first casualty of war it's quite different to assert that the truth should be the first casualty of war, which seems to be your position

Few questioned Ukraine's decision to ban RT's operations. This doesn't seem terribly different - Al Jazeera has very deep ties to Hamas, the enemy Israel is at war with, and has arguably been acting as their mouthpiece for propaganda.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#582

Post by xenospn »

runarberg wrote: post #541
ipaddr wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To parse your statement we need to understand what genocide means to you. For most it means the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Is that what you believe is happening or something else? If genocide is illegal than covering up would be the only logical move. Therefore it would be normal.

Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…

The US has killed over 400,000 Iraqis since invading Iraq. Do you think that qualifies as genocide?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#583

Post by CommanderData »

Al Jazeeras response was to say Israel is trying to cover up their crimes.

We all know Israel wouldn't do anything of the sort right, along with killing on average 50 children a day for the last 220 days.

I hope this comment is in spirit of HN which has consistently taken down stories about Israel.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#585

Post by Rebelgecko »

crazygringo wrote: post #406
Rebelgecko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was only familiar with Al Jazeera's English reporting (and thought it was pretty good), it was eye opening to check out their Arabic website translated into a language I speak. Maybe Google Translate was erasing some nuance, but I saw a huge number of controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts.

Can you provide specifics? I'm looking at the Google Translate version of their Arabic site right now: https://www-aljazeera-net.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_t... It's all looking like pretty standard news stuff to me. And I don't know about you, but I see "controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts" all the time even in mainstream US publications. So I'd need to s…

As far as worse, I'm not conducting a longitudinal study or anything so I can't compare their rate of "fake news" compared to Fox News or MSNBC or whatever your control group is.

Anecdotally I've noticed the biggest delta between their English and Arabic reporting in the immediate aftermath of major events. For example after the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion, the English version of their reporting was along the lines of "According to a Gaza Ministry of Health spokesperson, 500+ people were killed. A Hamas spokesperson said that the explosion was caused by an Israeli airstrike, launched via an F-16 or F-35." They made sure to hedge and make clear that their sources might be biased.

This[1] seems like the sort of Arabic coverage I remember seeing in the past, a much more definitive statement just saying that the occupiers massacred 500+ martyrs.

Unfortunately Google Translate doesn't play nicely with the wayback machine so it's tedious to build up a library of concrete examples.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20231017203426mp_/http://www.alj...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#586

Post by klyrs »

xenospn wrote: post #582
runarberg wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide has a precise definition and has been codified in international law. I believe this internationally recognized definition mirrors what most people mean when they use the term. It does not necessitate the systemic killing of every person of a certain genetic identity. Genocide is outlined in the Genocide convention from 1948[1]. It is short so I’ll give you the whole definition here: > In the present Conventi…

The US has killed over 400,000 Iraqis since invading Iraq. Do you think that qualifies as genocide?

Speaking as an American: yes. Bush and Obama are war criminals and I'd say that they belong in Gitmo but I'm more principled than that and we need to shut Gitmo down.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#587

Post by CommanderData »

jjgreen wrote: post #30
yonixwm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other extreme, Are media that spread misinformation without any due process are just protected indefinitely? Like in this very recent case: https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake... Edit: haaretz link: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-0...

Honest Reporting is an Israeli media advocacy group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting

[flagged]

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#588

Post by downWidOutaFite »

invalidname wrote: post #542
Amir_A wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Some choice quotes from your Haarez link:

"However, at Shura Base, to which most of the bodies were taken for purposes of identification, there were five forensic pathologists at work. In that capacity, they also examined bodies that arrived completely or partially naked in order to examine the possibility of rape. According to a source knowledgeable about the details, there were no signs on any of those bodies attesting to sexual relations having taken place or of mutilation of genitalia."

"200 bodies were documented. These teams did not document a single case of sexual assault or cases of genital mutilation. "

"the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists' body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves. "

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#589

Post by mrtksn »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #564
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

> That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do I'm in awe. I'm pro-censorship myself as a general principle (though not in this obviously unjustifiable instance of it), but please be coherent. How come the current semi-popular opinion on HN happens to be pro-censorship, when HN community is against censorship in every other situation?

I’m not pro-censorship at all.

I just think media is part of the warfare and it’s normal to try to control it during a war. I am anti war in first place, if you don’t want censorship don’t start a war.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#590

Post by oefrha »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #422
verdverm wrote: post #8

Reporters Without Borders gathers data and produces some interesting graphics. They recently released their World Press Freedom Index https://rsf.org/en https://rsf.org/en/country/israel --- edit: they appear to keep a list of mirrored news sites to circumvent censorship https://github.com/RSF-RWB/collateralfreedom (was hoping they had data available for their index, but have not found it yet) --- edit: the index has…

Not only does Israel target journalists, but it targets the families of journalists. Nobody is immune not even the bureau chief of Al Jezeera.

Damn that was a difficult read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Al-Dahdouh

2023-10-28: Wife, 15-year-old son, 7-year-old daughter, a grandson and seven other relatives killed in strike on refugee camp.

2023-12-15: Wounded by missile during filming, cameraman fatally wounded and bled to death with ambulances cut off.

2024-01-07: Eldest son, a journalist, killed in air strike.

2024-01-08: Two nephews killed.

2024-01-16: Evacuted to Egypt/Qatar with family. Probably would have been dead by now or with more dead family members if he remained.

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