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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#571

Post by dakom »

loceng wrote: post #433
dakom wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does proportion have to do with anything? You can't actually expect a country at war to supply the enemy with ammunition, period. I don't expect Hamas to allow an Arutz Sheva, or even Haaretz, office to operate on their airwaves. Re: journalistic integrity. It's arguable, but I would say no- and many others in democratic countries would too. Bleach doesn't cure COVID, vaccines don't cause autism, and Israel isn'…

There's irony and arrogance in much of what you say, especially "When the facts are being twisted and misinformation endangers human life, there is a responsibility to get it right or shut it down." What if that actually applies to you and what you believe, that perhaps you've been successfully been trained with misinformation and twisted truth? What if in fact there is a genocide going on but the population who Neta…

What's the irony, what's the arrogance? You can't just say "what if" without proof (I mean, say whatever you want.. but..) Back up your accusations with simple explanations please, I am not going to go watch 30 minutes of video to suss out your evidence.

Israel is the host country to the second largest Palestinian population on earth. I went to the Dead Sea the other day and passed by dozens of Palestinian cars on the road (not Israeli Arabs, which are another huge population- the Palestinians have different license plates).

If the goal of Israel was genocide, the number of civilian casualties would be FAR FAR greater than they are. I know programmers aren't necessarily mathematicians, but come on people, this is kindergarten stuff.

Look up the number of civilian casualties in America's fight against ISIS.

Hamas goes out of their way to use civilians as human shields. Just yesterday Israel had to try and carefully distinguish as a dual UNRWA / Hamas headquarters was put out of commission.

The narrative that Israel is commiting genocide in this war is so ridiculously stupid, a failure of basic math skills a 5 year old could do, the only way to believe it is to be horribly misinformed, or to want to believe it.

Al Jazeera incites violence by knowingly pushing misinformation on an audience who wants to believe it, to fan the flames of hate.

On Holocaust day especially, it's insane to expect Israel to provide resources for blood libels to her enemy in times of war.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#572

Post by aprilthird2021 »

noqc wrote: post #424
Rebelgecko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was only familiar with Al Jazeera's English reporting (and thought it was pretty good), it was eye opening to check out their Arabic website translated into a language I speak. Maybe Google Translate was erasing some nuance, but I saw a huge number of controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts.

Took the same path recently. Probably the easiest thing to point to if you're looking for something to convince people of Al Jazeera's nature, (besides specific articles), is the incredible amount of time and editorial space devoted to Yusuf al-Qaradawi on the arabic channel (before his death). The man had an audience of 60 million people for a decade and a half, and could reasonably be called the face of Al Jazeera…

> the incredible amount of time and editorial space devoted to Yusuf al-Qaradawi on the arabic channel (before his death). The man had an audience of 60 million people for a decade and a half, and could reasonably be called the face of Al Jazeera Arabic. He has caused a lot of problems through that platform that hopefuly only the most radicalized westerner won't view as monstrous.

I don't know Arabic, but I am Muslim, and Yusuf al Qaradawi is probably most known as a preeminent Islamic scholar. Any mosque you go to will likely have a work by him because his scholarship on the Quran and Hadith (not necessarily his views on current events) are very renowned. I'm not sure what makes him so radical and evil to be honest. He has written tons of scholarly works about Islam, interpretation of Islamic rules and laws, etc. And from looking online I see he was on Al Jazeera hosting a program called "Sharia and Life". These kinds of call-a-sheikh / Islamic info shows are pretty common in the Muslim world and probably have more viewership than news channels. Something Americans probably might not understand...

But it makes total sense for Al Jazeera Arabic (a channel with possibly a 90% Muslim viewership) to have a Muslim ask-a-sheikh show.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#573

Post by bottlepalm »

arp242 wrote: post #370
bottlepalm wrote: post #11

Is there anyone else who doesn't support either side of this conflict? They've been fighting each other for over 100 years. They both want the same piece of land. It's on them to figure it out. People around the world don't need to 'pick a side'. We can protest for both sides to sort their shit out, and not drag the rest of us into it.

I think lots of people don't really have a "side", other than the side of just not wanting to see people suffer. I don't think that closing your eyes to that is neutral. Sometimes "do nothing" is an act of evil. In Northern Ireland and the Balkans international intervention almost certainly saved lives and helped bring about peace and relative stability. How long had they been fighting? There's probably some more exa…

That's kind of what I'm getting at. I don't support either side because both are wrong. Stopping the suffering means compromise and concessions on both sides. The best the world can do is make that clear and not get caught up protesting for one side or the other - again, both are wrong. Their current path will only lead to another 100 years of suffering.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#574

Post by aprilthird2021 »

avip wrote: post #312
whatshisface wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you allow that to continue in your country? We have a constitution that protects our rights, and among them a right to make up our minds on the basis of an uncensored discourse. That's the other, implicit half of the first amendment: the right to listen to what others want to tell you.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

I think you can. I mean the Daily Stormer amongst other horrible hate-filled online publications are allowed to publish online, and US citizens are allowed to read it.

Meanwhile Israeli citizens cannot read Al Jazeera legally now.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#576

Post by lazyasciiart »

vundercind wrote: post #326
erichocean wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNN has two versions too, one for US audiences and one for the world.

I’m pretty sure that’s more normal than not for news orgs that have a home country or region but also compete on the global market. Some have several versions, not just two.

The Guardian is known for having such different takes on transgender rights in their US and British editions that the US employees complained.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#577

Post by aprilthird2021 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #493
cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

> Why would you allow that to continue in your country? If you value liberty or democracy the only valid question is: why wouldn’t you?

Israel is a country which values demography over democracy, so, like other Arab countries which don't value democracy, press repression is going to be a foregone conclusion

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#578

Post by aprilthird2021 »

bamboozled wrote: post #501
cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

I started watching it to try get a different take on events in Israel. It took me about 10 minutes to realise it’s a Hamas mouthpiece. I think they have two audiences to try establish a sense of credibility and then use it to spew lies.

Any citations? Reporting what Hamas says doesn't make it a Hamas mouthpiece, btw.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#579

Post by jfim »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #459
noqc wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took the same path recently. Probably the easiest thing to point to if you're looking for something to convince people of Al Jazeera's nature, (besides specific articles), is the incredible amount of time and editorial space devoted to Yusuf al-Qaradawi on the arabic channel (before his death). The man had an audience of 60 million people for a decade and a half, and could reasonably be called the face of Al Jazeera…

We are all trained starting from childhood to use a Hero-Villain framework when observing conflicts and it leaves us very confused when the real world is closer to Villain-Villain situation. Anytime I ever bring up say Kissinger and the crazy realpolitik actions he took, or now this lunatic Ben-Gvir in Israel I’ve recently learned about, other people are trained to see me as a communist or anti-semite immediately, be…

> I don’t really know how to navigate this problem to be honest.

Realistically, you can't, other than finding people who can accept that reality is shades of grey, not "my team good, other team bad."

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#580

Post by nextaccountic »

cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

> Also the entire point of Al Jazeera was for Qatar to provide political influence through media, not as an unbiased news agency.

Isn't this the point of any news organization whatsoever?

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