Live data from Hacker News

Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

newatlas.com

391–396 of 396 posts

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trolleybus is a technology from over 100 year ago.

Yes, but a primary advantage to private transportation is the ability to drive it in locations other than predefined routes in dense city centers.

The focus of the effort to make overhead charging viable is on large trucks that already drive mostly, but not completely, predefined routes on highways and in cities, which are often too lengthy to only rely on battery packs.

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly can, provided you have a truck, and a DOT certified fuel trailer, and a transfer pump. That system also allows you to participate in oil futures as an end user, not to mention it lets you keep your generator up and running for a very long time. Downside is, modern e10 gasoline tends to adsorb water from the air over time, so fuel isn't stable long term. Most guys doing this are running diesel cars/gense…

Is running a generator for long periods cost effective? If someone lived where the grid wasn't reliable, and could make the initial investment for all this fuel storage stuff, why not do solar?

Here in Ukraine, the grid is no longer 100% reliable for obvious (and highly intentional) reasons. Solar is somewhat inconvenient to use in large cities, and cloudy days are common. A variety of generator types and sizes can be seen instead. Living in an apartment, I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 Max as my first line and a 3.5kW gasoline/natgas generator as my second line. Most of the time, there is some power at some hours of the day, so the Ecoflow can store it. If it runs out, I can run an extension power cord down from my balcony, lug the generator down into the yard, and use it to charge the Ecoflow. I do have plans to buy a solar panel and put it on the building roof with a Starlink, but it would require negotiating with the neighbors and stuff. Gasoline storage really is an issue, though. Currently I just hope I'll have enough money to buy it as needed.

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but a primary advantage to private transportation is the ability to drive it in locations other than predefined routes in dense city centers.

The focus of the effort to make overhead charging viable is on large trucks that already drive mostly, but not completely, predefined routes on highways and in cities, which are often too lengthy to only rely on battery packs.

Others up above were discussing passenger vehicles.

For trucks on the highway, it is a much better idea, but for many of those cases, you'd be significantly better off investing in more rail.

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#394

We’re undergoing a Cambrian explosion of battery chemistries at the moment. Other startups, such as From Energy is scaling up production of Iron Air batteries in West Virginia, which will be an order of magnitude cheaper than lithium ion and will provide grid scale power [1]. North Harbour Clean Energy Promised to build a manufacturing facility in Australia to build Vanadium Flow batteries, which have very high charg…

Haven't we had battery chemistries change in less noticable ways over maybe 50 years? Mostly lead-acid batteries (both wet cell and dry cell), then alkaline batteries, nicad, nimh, lithium ion batteries, lithium polymer, lifep04, and more

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The focus of the effort to make overhead charging viable is on large trucks that already drive mostly, but not completely, predefined routes on highways and in cities, which are often too lengthy to only rely on battery packs.

Others up above were discussing passenger vehicles. For trucks on the highway, it is a much better idea, but for many of those cases, you'd be significantly better off investing in more rail.

Transporting refrigerated goods over moderate distances and last-mile delivery from the train yards are where trucks using overhead cables can shine. I also read that there existed trolleybus lines that went several miles/kilometers between towns that weren't connected by rail. It's especially useful in mountainous terrain.

Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production

#396

We’re undergoing a Cambrian explosion of battery chemistries at the moment. Other startups, such as From Energy is scaling up production of Iron Air batteries in West Virginia, which will be an order of magnitude cheaper than lithium ion and will provide grid scale power [1]. North Harbour Clean Energy Promised to build a manufacturing facility in Australia to build Vanadium Flow batteries, which have very high charg…

Of course, sodium can be used in its metal form directly to produce electricity in a fuel cell e.g. as described in US3730776A (https://patents.google.com/patent/US3730776A/en). The fuel cell does not require any special materials, however it still is a challenge to construct from the engineering point of view. Also, the proposed design can be greatly improved with additional knowledge about the reactions occurring. The resulting sodium hydroxide solution can be recycled using the well known Castner process, the "waste" hydrogen resulting from both reactions can be used as fuel or for other industrial processes.

Btw. the energy density of sodium metal is 3694 Wh/kg and 3555 Wh/litre - so an order of magnitude more. Also, the advantage of decoupling capacity from power is dramatic. Of course, you can also split the process of storing and releasing of energy which can be an advantage. Last but not least, sodium in its metal form is not hard to store or to transport. At ~100°C it becomes liquid and therefore even easier to transfer using regular steel pipes.

Post reply on HN