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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#451

Post by wudangmonk »

user982 wrote: post #189
wudangmonk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not but it is being banned because people are getting their news from there and its not following the right narrative that the 'real' news agencies are failing at peddling to the public. Then again I could be wrong and the U.S government just doesn't like people people dancing, hard to tell which one is the reason behind it all.

The congresspeople who voted to shut down TikTok have been very open about the reason: https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1787104142982283587

Watching the clip is just the usual "Who you gonna believe? us our your lying eyes?". Thing is that the days of a media fully controlling the narrative are gone. Before it was easier since all you had were rumors of what was really going on but now anyone can take video and give direct proof, how are you going to Baghdad-Bob your way into the narrative you want?.

The best they can aim for is trying to create a narrative that at least somewhat aligns with the reality that is impossible to fully hide now.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#452

Post by stefan_ »

fathyb wrote: post #73
kristopolous wrote: post #49

The optics are interesting. People who have opinions on things are unlikely to change them due to this. The interesting question is how many people do not have strong opinions and how this could affect them. My guess is it also won't. Why would you be paying attention to news you haven't cared about up to now? The nonopinionated will likely not hear of this

What is worrying is what it’ll mean for the access to the West Bank and Gaza, as they’re currently the only international media outlet on the field, and are documenting various atrocities that are currently being looked at by the ICJ.

[flagged]

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#453

Post by Qem »

avip wrote: post #444
crazygringo wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide specifics? I'm looking at the Google Translate version of their Arabic site right now: https://www-aljazeera-net.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_t... It's all looking like pretty standard news stuff to me. And I don't know about you, but I see "controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts" all the time even in mainstream US publications. So I'd need to s…

Let me help you. Searching is difficult. Examples are in English, to avoid any "lost in translation" issues. Here's Al-Jazeera echoing completely made up rape accusations. Why were the accusations retracted? https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake... Here's the (English) report on the Israeli strike (that wasn't) that (didn't) kill 500 in Al-Ahli hospital - a widely quoted and echoed further lie…

The reports Al-Ahli (I think it's what you meant by "Al-Hila") hospital was targeted by Israel, like every other one in Gaza, are credible. See https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi... and https://ararmaher.wordpress.com/2024/04/23/doppler-shift-ana...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#454

Post by kragen »

mrtksn wrote: post #330
angra_mainyu wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has done the same with Russia. Also, I think a few other Arab countries like Egypt have blocked/banned Al Jazeera.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

> That's correct and IMHO [censorship is] the right thing to do when shooting begins

it's been a common observation since aischylos that the truth is the first casualty of war

it's quite different to assert that the truth should be the first casualty of war, which seems to be your position

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#455

Post by IX-103 »

xenospn wrote: post #435
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> last thing they'd want, in addition to fighting both Hamas and Hezbollah, would be an uprising of the israelo-palestinians who live in Israel You're talking about Israeli citizens. The way you keep them from uprising is by giving them political power. (I also see no evidence any uprising is imminent.)

They have a lot of potential political power. They refuse to use it.

"Refuse to use it" like African Americans in the Jim Crow south? Or is there some other context driving their non-participation?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#456

Post by neoromantique »

atlantic wrote: post #295
exe34 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite usual to ban the enemy from inciting dissidence from your own population during a war.

Yes, propaganda is acceptable during a war, and censorship is a part of that. But Europe is not at war with Russia. They are simply giving material support to one of the belligerents. Outside the context of a declared war, censorship should not happen in so-called democratic societies.

Russia is already at war with Europe, sadly Europe doesn’t seem to acknowledge that yet.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#457

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rendall wrote: post #432
avip wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

> Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ? Yes. We see this with open chants of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" and "Globalize the Intifada" ...as long as the call is not likely to produce "imminent lawless action". Brandenburg v. Ohio was a decision by the Supreme Court establishing the "imminent lawless action" test for determining when speech…

> We see this with open chants of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"

I particularly object to taking worst possible interpretation, and labelling the slogan as a call for ethnic cleansing.

The phrase "will be free" would not normally be interpreted this was in in any other conflict.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#458

Post by acdha »

avip wrote: post #444
crazygringo wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide specifics? I'm looking at the Google Translate version of their Arabic site right now: https://www-aljazeera-net.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_t... It's all looking like pretty standard news stuff to me. And I don't know about you, but I see "controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts" all the time even in mainstream US publications. So I'd need to s…

Let me help you. Searching is difficult. Examples are in English, to avoid any "lost in translation" issues. Here's Al-Jazeera echoing completely made up rape accusations. Why were the accusations retracted? https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake... Here's the (English) report on the Israeli strike (that wasn't) that (didn't) kill 500 in Al-Ahli hospital - a widely quoted and echoed further lie…

Your second claim seems to being mistaking their role as telling absolute truth. The very first sentence makes it clear that they are reporting an official government statement, and the next that Israel disputes it and says the PLJ was responsible. This seems very normal for war reporting and I note that they’re very careful to attribute each claim so the reader can decide how much to trust it.

Edit: your first source is a pro-Israeli advocacy group run by a former AIPAC employee, which has marked its coverage of the war with things like baselessly claiming reporters were in on the October 7th attacks:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-photographers-attack...

Given that in this case they ran a report by a witness, and then publicly updated that to say that a Hamas investigation had called her credibility into question, it’s interesting to note how carefully the “Honest Reporting” writer relies on uncited insinuation or tries to distract your attention to statements by people who are not part of al Jazeera. Again, it’s not great that they ran a story by someone who lied but that’s a hazard of breaking news coverage and it’s hardly unique in the field.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#459

Post by alchemist1e9 »

noqc wrote: post #424
Rebelgecko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was only familiar with Al Jazeera's English reporting (and thought it was pretty good), it was eye opening to check out their Arabic website translated into a language I speak. Maybe Google Translate was erasing some nuance, but I saw a huge number of controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts.

Took the same path recently. Probably the easiest thing to point to if you're looking for something to convince people of Al Jazeera's nature, (besides specific articles), is the incredible amount of time and editorial space devoted to Yusuf al-Qaradawi on the arabic channel (before his death). The man had an audience of 60 million people for a decade and a half, and could reasonably be called the face of Al Jazeera…

We are all trained starting from childhood to use a Hero-Villain framework when observing conflicts and it leaves us very confused when the real world is closer to Villain-Villain situation.

Anytime I ever bring up say Kissinger and the crazy realpolitik actions he took, or now this lunatic Ben-Gvir in Israel I’ve recently learned about, other people are trained to see me as a communist or anti-semite immediately, because if I object to a US figure, I must be with the other side, same with Israel.

I don’t really know how to navigate this problem to be honest.

You are 1000% correct al-Qaradhawi is total evil.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#460

Post by JumpCrisscross »

xenospn wrote: post #435
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> last thing they'd want, in addition to fighting both Hamas and Hezbollah, would be an uprising of the israelo-palestinians who live in Israel You're talking about Israeli citizens. The way you keep them from uprising is by giving them political power. (I also see no evidence any uprising is imminent.)

They have a lot of potential political power. They refuse to use it.

> refuse to use it

Or they’re a diverse set of people whose views can’t be summarised based on their race and religion alone. I doubt, for example, many of them are in favour of a one-state solution.

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