Earlier quoted context omitted.
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HN tends to avoid politics, but when it does show up, there is a definite bias if you look at the pattern of up and down votes. What's more interesting is seeing how that bias has changed over time.
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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
331–340 of 807 posts
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
Authoritarianism would be if it was top down. This is more a leftist version of McCarthyism. Aka intellectual purity testing and purges.
> Authoritarianism would be if it was top down. If a minority can impose their will into institutions, destroying the life of anybody that opposes them, you need a quite messed-up conception of power structures to place that minority "down".
When said minority are just as likely to be peers or subordinates within the power structure, I don’t see how it could be ‘from the top’. Do you?
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#333[deleted]
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
> am very interested in increasing diversity Why? As a non-white immigrant, I’m deeply suspicious of the notion that a team with me on it is in any way different than a team without me on it based on my skin color or ethnicity. I think that line of thinking doesn’t go anywhere good, especially for me, but for everyone else too. As soon as you make it acceptable to say that people are different based on group membersh…
> Why? As a non-white immigrant, I’m deeply suspicious of the notion that a team with me on it is in any way different than a team without me on it based on my skin color or ethnicity. Perhaps, but a team that would not have hired you because of your skin color or ethnicity would also be a worse team since they would not be willing or able to hire the best candidates. > As soon as you make it acceptable to say that p…
I agree with the “eliminate artificial barriers” version of DEI. I’m a huge beneficiary of the push in the 1990s to “not see race.” But I don’t think that’s the dominant version of DEI today. I think the notion that “diverse teams are better” actually erects barriers, because it socializes people to think that the races are different.
I think the situation is different for sex diversity because men and women are different in ways that require accommodation.
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#335[flagged]
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#336In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can't understand these "DEI statements" at all. They always seemed very "1984" to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I'm in a like-minded echo chamber, but is ther…
> seemed very "1984" to me
In Australia, there was a recent introduction of "Acknowledgement of Country" at both the federal and state government level. Universities and other large institutions are also "doing their part". For example, in video call meetings with more than 'n' people, a manager will read out a statement for a minute at the start of the call acknowledging the "traditional custodians of the land upon which a meeting or event is to take place". In other words, the Aboriginals that white men largely wiped out over 200 years ago. See, e.g.: https://www.indigenous.unsw.edu.au/strategy/culture-and-coun...
So now, the descendants of those white men feel guilty and have to make a little speech before each meeting. It's the most dystopian bullshit I've ever had to personally participate in, ever.
This leads to some truly bizarre moments, like a recent meeting where half of the people were Indian subcontractors physically overseas, everyone else was a first-generation immigrant to Australia, and we had to acknowledge the traditional custodianship of the area by a tribe that was completely wiped out and no longer exists, not even descendants that might appreciate the gesture.
Similarly, in another meeting an "aboriginal elder" was chosen to speak because of their native heritage. That would be nice, except that this person was pasty white, blonde haired, blue eyed, and had freckles. Literally a white person making other white people feel guilty for something their common ancestors did!
The whole thing is an absurd farce played for political points, with no substance of any kind behind it. Actual aboriginals are no better off if in some city office a bunch of people in suits verbally self-flaggilate for sins committed hundreds of years ago by people that they might not even be descendants of. (Half the population is either a first or second generation immigrant!)
I wish there was some term that is the equivalent of "realpolitik", but for race relations, so that I can more succinctly express my disdain for this type of divorced-from-reality behaviour.
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#337What the hell is a “DEI” statement anyways? The site is a bit light on what this means, only a bunch of satirical and sarcastic posts. Almost feels like it was generated by LLM.
Is it something like this?
“I helped a group of first generation, low income students apply to college and obtain $50,000 in grants”
Not sure what’s wrong with this…
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously I'm not in academia, but to most outsiders this is really obvious stuff. That's my point. To outsiders like you and me, these things may seem obviously desirable. But academics respond to incentives. Imagine you've spent 10 years pushing some set of conclusions based on some shaky studies you did early in your career. Do you really want people to dig deep and challenge the validity of your research?
Isn't that just part of the job? If you're not wrong sometimes you're not trying hard enough. To avoid this situation you should invite others to challenge your work more quickly.
The academic job is primarily about getting funding for further work. If ten years of work were proven wrong, the academic may worry that funding agencies may stop funding them. "You've been doing the wrong work for a decade!"
So while the academic may not mind being proven wrong in their hypotheses/results/conclusions, they may stress about not being able to get more funding.
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#339Most applicants for a desirable position are likely to come from the majority group of your region. So for a minority candidate to be selected they would not only have to be equal to the others - but better. That seems unfair to me. What does that mean over the long term regarding how you hire? That said, discussions about DEI tend to ignore that thing we are never meant to talk about: social class. Social class and…
> Applicants for a desirable position are likely to come from the majority group of your region. So for a minority candidate to be selected they would not only have to be equal to the others - but better.
Your second sentence here doesn't actually follow from the first.
Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, this is what I am also thinking of. It makes sense for people in a position to create a culture or hire a team to know, it's a science you probably weren't exposed to in school and knowing the real effects that are known and studied is a darn good start to implementing DEI well. Doing it based on guesswork is probably worse than useless. So that's the non-ideological part. If you actually care enough to study i…
> it's a science you probably weren't exposed to in school Interesting take, why do you think it is you likely weren’t expose to DEI in school? While I’m thinking about it, didn’t we just used to call it “affirmative action”?
I guess: maths, physics, engineering, anything that’s not Sociology or Economics?