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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#431

Post by loceng »

dotancohen wrote: post #140
loceng wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Then let me go on record as saying that I fully support my government and my army's efforts to return the remaining hostages even in the face of double-standard world efforts to legitimize the genocidal, racist, homophobic, and misogynistic Hamas regime.

Can you also go on the record to say what do you think the % odds are that the IDF killed Hamas' hostages (your own fellow citizens) when bombarding Gaza - which they continue to do - which arguably further increases the odds of killing more hostages?

Logically the odds of the hostages being alive would be higher if this wasn't the tactic the IDF decided to use, right?

If I was in command of a military then the hostages would come first, and I would send in soldiers who signed up to potentially give their lives - to exchange soldiers lives for civilians, if need be.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#432

Post by rendall »

avip wrote: post #312
whatshisface wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you allow that to continue in your country? We have a constitution that protects our rights, and among them a right to make up our minds on the basis of an uncensored discourse. That's the other, implicit half of the first amendment: the right to listen to what others want to tell you.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

> Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

Yes. We see this with open chants of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" and "Globalize the Intifada"

...as long as the call is not likely to produce "imminent lawless action". Brandenburg v. Ohio was a decision by the Supreme Court establishing the "imminent lawless action" test for determining when speech advocating illegal conduct is not protected by the First Amendment. The Court held that speech is protected unless it is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#433

Post by loceng »

dakom wrote: post #251
loceng wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that's an apples to oranges comparison. Since by international law definition Gaza is an occupied territory, for one, and it's perhaps one of the most disproportionate "conflicts" in modern history. Re: journalistic integrity - I thought the idea with investigative journalism is allow people to speak freely - and then let the individual determine how truthful the source is based on a multitude of factor…

What does proportion have to do with anything? You can't actually expect a country at war to supply the enemy with ammunition, period. I don't expect Hamas to allow an Arutz Sheva, or even Haaretz, office to operate on their airwaves. Re: journalistic integrity. It's arguable, but I would say no- and many others in democratic countries would too. Bleach doesn't cure COVID, vaccines don't cause autism, and Israel isn'…

There's irony and arrogance in much of what you say, especially "When the facts are being twisted and misinformation endangers human life, there is a responsibility to get it right or shut it down."

What if that actually applies to you and what you believe, that perhaps you've been successfully been trained with misinformation and twisted truth?

What if in fact there is a genocide going on but the population who Netanyahu needs to continue to support him has had propaganda used on them for so long that it's manufactured consent for a genocide - that some people are misled to believe it isn't.

These conversations need to happen but they haven't for obvious reasons - and it's always going to be the bad actor who's wanting the truth to be hidden; perhaps exhibit A for this is Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire - while publicly discussing doing a debate between Ben and Candace Owens - they behind the scenes were seeking and received a gag order on Candace; please of video overviews of this:

Breaking Points (4:43 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1Jhed1-iA

Mark Dice (17 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9nrRH2WeUo

Glenn Greenwald (23 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOh3GJxes28

etc.

The problem is most people don't stay engaged in the discussion long enough, and the ideological mob side knee-jerk reacts away to be dismissive in anger-rage and discuss - short-circuiting their critical thinking, perhaps the cognitive dissonance is too painful as well, denial of the possibility of how could your precious government do such a horrific thing?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#434

Post by loceng »

avip wrote: post #157
loceng wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The opinion of Israel’s majority about the government would usually be measured by elections, not social media.

You can't know to what extent a government will behave, and people will have different limitations and tolerances.

It's why referendums exist - however the more authoritarian a government becomes, the less they want the population voting specifically on issues to maintain more control over policy (and the population), e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Canada

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#435

Post by xenospn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #274
TacticalCoder wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further uprising against Israel across the region directly from Hamas. > > It's even banned in some Arab countries for being a security risk. > > Why would you allow that to continue in your country? Especially when you have, in your country, about 20% of muslim arabs, most of which being israelo-palestinians ( i.e . palestinians…

> last thing they'd want, in addition to fighting both Hamas and Hezbollah, would be an uprising of the israelo-palestinians who live in Israel You're talking about Israeli citizens. The way you keep them from uprising is by giving them political power. (I also see no evidence any uprising is imminent.)

They have a lot of potential political power. They refuse to use it.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#436

Post by alchemist1e9 »

crazygringo wrote: post #406
Rebelgecko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was only familiar with Al Jazeera's English reporting (and thought it was pretty good), it was eye opening to check out their Arabic website translated into a language I speak. Maybe Google Translate was erasing some nuance, but I saw a huge number of controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts.

Can you provide specifics? I'm looking at the Google Translate version of their Arabic site right now: https://www-aljazeera-net.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_t... It's all looking like pretty standard news stuff to me. And I don't know about you, but I see "controversial, disputed, or downright false claims that were reported uncritically as facts" all the time even in mainstream US publications. So I'd need to s…

It’s not worse at all. Actually probably the opposite, I learn some crazy stuff watching Al Jazeera and sometimes don’t believe it and go off researching it … and wow it’s very concerning. It seems almost certain to me there has to be some conspiracy amongst US publications to conceal certain information around Israeli-Palestinian conflict and history. As one example, read up on Ben Gvir, current National Security Minister … it’s totally crazy.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#437

Post by omegaworks »

cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

> the entire point of Al Jazeera was for Qatar to provide political influence through media, not as an unbiased news agency.

This is the entire point of all mass media. There is no such thing as unbiased news.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#438

Post by Animatronio »

Ecstatify wrote: post #63
rjtavares wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia Today was banned in Ukraine in 2014 and in some (most?) EU countries in 2022.

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Germany, Denmark, Estonia, Spain, Finland, France, United Kingdom, Greece, Croatia, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Slovenia, Slovakia,

Wrong! RT is available in Ro.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#439

Post by nashashmi »

cjk2 wrote: post #176

Just a point about Al Jazeera that is worth mentioning. There are two Al Jazeeras. One which is presented to Western audiences and one which is presented to Middle-Eastern audiences. The media and articles are politically aligned in each region. Don't assume what you read in the US/UK/wherever is the same as over there. In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further upr…

Either the media was in English or in Arabic. If it was English, then it was the same stuff being shown to everyone else in the west. If it was Arabic, then I don’t think Israelis would understand any of it.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#440

Post by Qem »

Curious fact. The shutting down of Al Jazeera gave at least one journalist the title of being part of media organizations banned by distinct apartheid regimes twice, first SA in 1988, and now Israel in 2024. Wonder it that qualifies for the Guinness Book. See:

https://twitter.com/TonyKaron/status/1787171262202019932

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Karon

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