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Machine Unlearning in 2024

ai.stanford.edu

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#63
post #39

I think "unlearning" is not the actual goal; we don't want the model to stick its proverbial head in the sand. Being unaware of racism is different from not producing racist content (and, in fact, one could argue that it is necessary to know about racism if one wishes to inhibit producing racist content; I remember in elementary school certain kids thought it would be funny to teach one of the special-ed kids to parr…

Say you tell me you want a red sphere. Taken at face value, you show a prejudice for red sphere's and discriminate against all other coloured shapes.

We've all had to dance that dance with ChatGPT by now, where you ask for something perfectly ordinary, but receive a response telling you off for even daring to think like that, until eventually you manage to formulate the prompt in a way that it likes with just the right context and winner vocabulary + grammar, and finally the damned thing gives you the info you want without so much as any gaslighting or snarky insults hiding in the answer!

It doesn't understand racism, it simply evaluates certain combinations of things according to how it was set up to do.

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a time-to-unlearn kind of an acceptable agreement Why put the burden to end users? I think the technology should allow for unlearning and even "never learn about me in any future models and derivative models".

The technology is on par with a Markov chain that's grown a little too much. It has no notion of "you", not in the conventional sense at least. Putting the infrastructure in place to allow people (and things) to be blacklisted from training is all you can really do, and even then it's a massive effort. The current models are not trained in such a way that you can do this without starting over from scratch.

That’s hardly accurate. Deep learning among other things is another type of lossy compression algorithm.

It doesn’t have a 1:1 mapping of each bit of information it’s been trained with, but you can very much extract a subset of that data. Which is why it’s easy to get DallE to recreate the Mona Lisa, variations on that image show up repeatedly in its training courpus.

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#65
What I don't get about the DP approach is how this would be reconciled with the "exact" question-answering functionality of LLMs.

DP makes perfect sense if all I care about is low-resolution statistical metrics or distributions of something and not the exact values - the entire purpose of DP is to prevent reconstructing the exact values.

However, the expectation for LLMs is usually to ask a question (or request a task) and get an exact value as a response: If you ask "What's the phone number of John Smith?" the model will either tell you it doesn't know or it will answer you with an actual phone number (real or hallucinated). It will not tell you "the number is with 83% probability somewhere in New Jersey".

So if the model is trained with DP, then either the data is scrambled enough that the it won't be able to return any kind of reliably correct data, effectively making it useless - or it's not scrambled enough, so that the model can successfully reconstuct data despite the scrambling process, effectively making the DP step useless.

Or in other words, the OP defines "DP unlearning" as:

> The intuition is that if an adversary cannot (reliably) tell apart the models, then it is as if this data point has never been learned—thus no need to unlearn.

However, if my original model truthfully returns John Smith's phone number on request and the "unlearned" model must not be distinguishable by an outside observer from the original model, then the "unlearned" model will also return the phone number. While I could say that "technically" the model has never seen the phone number in the training data due to my DP scrambling, this doesn't solve the practical problem why the unlearning was requested in the first place, namely that John Smith doesn't want the model to return his phone number. He could probably care less about the specific details of the training process.

So then, how would DP help here?

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#66
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a time-to-unlearn kind of an acceptable agreement Why put the burden to end users? I think the technology should allow for unlearning and even "never learn about me in any future models and derivative models".

The technology is on par with a Markov chain that's grown a little too much. It has no notion of "you", not in the conventional sense at least. Putting the infrastructure in place to allow people (and things) to be blacklisted from training is all you can really do, and even then it's a massive effort. The current models are not trained in such a way that you can do this without starting over from scratch.

Well then, maybe we shouldn't use the technology.

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#67

seems like there is a basic problem where if you specify something to be unlearned, it could still be re-learned by inference and prompting. the solution may not be in filtering the proscribed facts or data itself, but in the weights and incentives that form a final layer of reasoning. Look at "safe" models now like google's last launch, where the results were often unsatisfying, as clearly we don't want truthful mod…

It is unsurprising that a system trained on human-generated content might end up encoding implicit bias, toxicity, and negative goals. And the more powerful and general-purpose a system is, the more suitable it is for a wide range of powerfully negative purposes.

Neither specializing the model nor filtering its output seems to have worked reliably in practice.

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#68
I don't know — the post, reading the comments here, I am a little worried for the "sanity" of our AI that have been trained, untrained, retrained like a pawn in some kind of Cold War spy novel.

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#69
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. People with anterograde amnesia still possess general intelligence.

I don't know I ton about amnesia, but I would think the facilities for changing their mind are still there. E.g. ordering food, they might immediately change their mind after choosing something and correct their order. I recognize they cannot form new memories but from what I understand they still would have a working memory, otherwise you'd be virtually unable to think and speak.

LLMs will change their minds today. Most major ones can change their minds on subsequent generations within the same context (“I’m sorry, my previous answer was incorrect,..”), and the biggest ones can change their mind mid-answer (mostly observed with GPT4).

Re: Machine Unlearning in 2024

#70

Why should we try to unlearn "bad" behaviours from AI? There is no AGI without violence, its part of being free thinking and self survival. But also by knowing that launching a first strike by a drunk president was a bad idea we averted a war because of a few people, AI needs to understand consequences. It seems futile to try and hide "bad" from AI.

Because corporations won't buy the fancy chat bot if there's a chance it will occasionally use slurs in it's interactions with their customers.
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