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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#51

Post by nojvek »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #12
selfmodruntime wrote: post #8

The American focus on race is a bit insane to outsiders. Putting such a big focus on race in university applications is just weird. Even worse, having top universities openly discriminate against people based on their race or heritage with affirmative action or similar policies, all in the name of equality, is unbelievable to Europeans like me. What the hell is wrong with the US if a person has a worse chance to be a…

Race is a distraction from the ultimate divide: class . IMO, every policy that wants to promote equality should revolve solely around class. In every place on earth, richer upper-class people are more advantaged than those from the lower classes. Every social policy should focus on lessening that gap (I recognize that the gap can't be closed entirely).

100% ^.

But then it ends up being tied to race since black folks are on average coming from a less wealthier class than white people.

And class is hard to judge objectively. If you go by income tax, many wealthy people show very little income since they live on their family wealth. E.g a house fully paid off and only earning meager income from a side business, while their stocks they inherited are climbing millions in valuation.

The rich are really good at hiding they are rich.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#52

Post by simonsarris »

MrSkelter wrote: post #25
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #11

DEI statements are culty. I see it no different than a religious fundamentalist college asking faculty to sign an oath of allegiance. At least in such a case, you can always know beforehand the BS you'll put up with, unlike secular universities that are adopting DEI statements.

There is a huge difference between trying to counter institutional prejudice in order to improve the quality of the student body and work being done, and whatever you think a religious “pledge of allegiance” is. A pledge to God? The mishandling of DEI doesn’t invalidate the need to fix broken systems which fail to select the best people instead of those who score highest in easily gamed and inherently biased metrics.

> easily gamed and inherently biased metrics

IQ tests are not easily gamed and suggesting otherwise is mostly lying. They might be too easy, or have too low a ceiling (SAT), or might have some mild response to coaching. But a very stupid person cannot come out the other side with the very high score, and a very smart person should be able to figure them out sufficiently that they prove their utility.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#53

Post by 6312783123 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #48
_imnothere wrote: post #30

[flagged]

I think DEI/affirmative action is immoral, but I can also acknowledge that the topic tends to result in too much low-quality political spite in the comments.

But is there a wider problem if people stop discussing controversial but very important topics on the Internet in general? Can something be done to fence off the low quality comments, without removing them from public view? Instead of outright banning political controversy?

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#54

Post by 6312783123 »

simonsarris wrote: post #52
MrSkelter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference between trying to counter institutional prejudice in order to improve the quality of the student body and work being done, and whatever you think a religious “pledge of allegiance” is. A pledge to God? The mishandling of DEI doesn’t invalidate the need to fix broken systems which fail to select the best people instead of those who score highest in easily gamed and inherently biased metrics.

> easily gamed and inherently biased metrics IQ tests are not easily gamed and suggesting otherwise is mostly lying. They might be too easy, or have too low a ceiling (SAT), or might have some mild response to coaching. But a very stupid person cannot come out the other side with the very high score, and a very smart person should be able to figure them out sufficiently that they prove their utility.

[dead]

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#55

Post by geor9e »

crooked-v wrote: post #9

So what are the actual statements being banned? The article gives zero useful details.

The specific way you phrased that question makes me suspect you misinterpreted this as a banning of speech. Not at all. They're removing a class of required question from application forms. “The MIT administration has advised the departments that were requiring DEI statements to stop requiring them and to stop using this kind of information. This has just recently been disclosed to the faculty, but a general announcement to the students is not planned.”

Or are you asking what a DEI statement is in academia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusi...

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#56

Post by HDThoreaun »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #12
selfmodruntime wrote: post #8

The American focus on race is a bit insane to outsiders. Putting such a big focus on race in university applications is just weird. Even worse, having top universities openly discriminate against people based on their race or heritage with affirmative action or similar policies, all in the name of equality, is unbelievable to Europeans like me. What the hell is wrong with the US if a person has a worse chance to be a…

Race is a distraction from the ultimate divide: class . IMO, every policy that wants to promote equality should revolve solely around class. In every place on earth, richer upper-class people are more advantaged than those from the lower classes. Every social policy should focus on lessening that gap (I recognize that the gap can't be closed entirely).

Even lebron james gets the n word spray painted on his house. Class may be the main divide, but race is still an absolutely huge one that transcends class.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#58

Post by dang »

nsajko wrote: post #6
LaurensBER wrote: post #5

Although the intentions behind DEI are good such a top down approach doesn't seem to get the desired results (i.e optimal use of everyone's talent, irrespective of their colour, sex and/or identify). Unfortunately the name (and perhaps ideas?) are now tainted and I hope this doesn't impact the bottom up approaches (i.e support kids and young adults with extra classes, trainings, and in general just being chill and ac…

Were the intentions behind colonialism good, too, in your opinion?

Please don't take HN threads into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#59

Post by dang »

All: Please don't use HN for ideological battle. There are too many low-quality/predictable comments here. We want curious conversation, not sharp recitals.

I know it's hard when the topic is itself an ideological battle, but that's a good time to review the site guidelines, including this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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