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The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

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Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#11

Post by SaberTail »

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain

We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy put in from lasers. The NIF lasers are not anywhere close to 100% efficient at converting energy to light, and so it was not actually net energy positive.

NIF is not going to lead to fusion power. That's not the point. Fusion bombs are primarily an engineering problem. There's lots of plasma physics going on that is very difficult to simulate with a computer, and you need real world data to inform the simulations to make sure they're working properly. That's what NIF is for. Instead of having to blow up a nuclear bomb, and violating test ban treaties, NIF can produce that data. And with the PR shine of tying it to fusion energy.

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#12

Post by daedrdev »

SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

We already have enough nukes to glass the world several times over.

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#13

Post by rqtwteye »

SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

It’s pretty crazy that they are still working on improving nuclear bombs. If there is one area where the current state is “good enough” it should be that area. I can see the need for maintaining what we have already but why try to advance the technology? A pure fusion bomb would be cleaner as far as I know but do we really want to make nuclear war more feasible?

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#14

Post by dgacmu »

rqtwteye wrote: post #13
SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

It’s pretty crazy that they are still working on improving nuclear bombs. If there is one area where the current state is “good enough” it should be that area. I can see the need for maintaining what we have already but why try to advance the technology? A pure fusion bomb would be cleaner as far as I know but do we really want to make nuclear war more feasible?

In their defense, some of the questions and that they're asking are about how our stockpile degrades over time - which hopefully means keeping weapons on ice longer instead of having to reprocess and build as many new ones.

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#15

Post by [deleted] »

SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

[deleted]

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#16

Post by keepamovin »

This is such a tragedy. So ridiculous it just wreaks of corruption. Energy industry threatened by new tech. To not even turn it on? And collect the data?

Like the Darkstar Mach 10 test day shutdown scene by the “Drone Ranger” in Top Gun: Maverick

Oh well perhaps if the magnet mirrors still exist they can be repurposed by the Guggenheim for an installation. Beautiful sculpture!! Hehe :)

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#17

Post by jvanderbot »

daedrdev wrote: post #12
SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

We already have enough nukes to glass the world several times over.

I don't understand your comment at all. It doesn't seem to me that GP was suggesting more bombs, just suggesting more testing and letting bomb makers use all their available tools and funding on it.

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#18

Post by segfaultbuserr »

rqtwteye wrote: post #13
SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

It’s pretty crazy that they are still working on improving nuclear bombs. If there is one area where the current state is “good enough” it should be that area. I can see the need for maintaining what we have already but why try to advance the technology? A pure fusion bomb would be cleaner as far as I know but do we really want to make nuclear war more feasible?

> I can see the need for maintaining what we have already [...]

The officially-stated goal of these labs (pulsed power, fusion, and hydrodynamic test facilities [0]) is indeed for maintaining existing nuclear weapons, not to design new ones (and also for doing basic research during free time). This was called the Science Based Stockpile Stewardship program [1] - ensure that existing nuclear weapons would remain functional in the foreseeable future. (Interestingly, the lesser-known hydrodynamic test facilities such as the Dual-Axis Radiographic Hydrodynamic Test Facility are more useful for weapon designs than fusion facilities).

The idea is to test materials under extreme lab conditions to help computer modeling, so that it would still be possible to do minor design changes to replace obsolete or end-of-life parts (the FOGBANK incident [1] came to mind). Understanding long-term aging is also a stated goal.

[0] http://www.wslfweb.org/docs/agex.htm

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockpile_stewardship

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogbank

Re: The Mirror Fusion Test Facility (2023)

#19

Post by pfdietz »

daedrdev wrote: post #12
SaberTail wrote: post #11

> Only in December of 2022 did scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce that they had achieved the first recorded fusion reaction with a net energy gain We've been achieving fusion reactions with net energy gain since the 1950s, when hydrogen bombs were developed. And, on top of that, the achievement they're talking about was more energy out than light energy…

We already have enough nukes to glass the world several times over.

This is not true.
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