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As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

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Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#201

Post by CodeWriter23 »

minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

> is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/

Can you point to any project site that has released anything along this line? Blueprints, bills of material, code? There's nothing on the site you linked having any such resources. The closest thing is a block diagram including an RS-485 motor controller, which doesn't really seem like an alternative to standard parts at first glance.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#202

Post by nullindividual »

heyoni wrote: post #151
somethoughts wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of…

In my experience, the chairs and how they’re built aren’t what adds to the price tag; the fact that an insurance company is paying is what is. My daughter literally just got approved for a talking device that would otherwise cost us $4000. It’s a Samsung tablet with $300 software and an attached speaker and comes with some sort of repair agreement. I can buy and break 20 iPads for that price…and we did end up buying…

That tablet and software cost a large sum to be validated. Those CFRs get extremely expensive.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#204

Post by klabb3 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #31
throwaway2562 wrote: post #13

[flagged]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

There are folks who take shitty jobs because they don’t have anything. Say you’re dealing drugs, or pressuring poor people to buy lifestyle products they can’t afford. Or a closer example, working for data mining companies, or surveillance tech. At the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder, these things are complicated, because making a living is hard. Maybe that’s all you know, and any alternative would be a risky jump where you’d lose money, health care, housing, and providing for your kids. Not saying it’s one way or another, but at least it’s complicated.

But plenty of these individuals in PE have everything they need in life. They can retire comfortably early and leave plenty for their children, and have a second home in Hawaii and expensive hobbies. If you are in this position and actively and with full knowledge continue to harm others then you can’t blame “the game”. Nobody is forcing you.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#205

Post by bravo22 »

eropple wrote: post #42
bravo22 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability still exists in a free market. Regulations are government's way of giving you immunity from liability laws, or not enacting them, in exchange for doing things a very specific ways. This creates moates.

> Liability still exists in a free market Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go.

And putting resources towards lowering that barrier would go significantly further than any regulation.

Regulation is by nature slow and highly susceptible to corruption or stagnation. Whereas the courts, as onerous as they may be, essentially achieve the same thing through liability but it is more dynamic, more responsive, and more likely to error correct than the former.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#206

Post by jjk166 »

Latty wrote: post #59
bravo22 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability still exists in a free market. Regulations are government's way of giving you immunity from liability laws, or not enacting them, in exchange for doing things a very specific ways. This creates moates.

Liability can't magically undo damage to health. Regulation is vital when the potential damage is irreversible.

Nor can regulation. But the idea is that, in seeking to avoid liability, people will avoid doing things that would foreseeably lead to such liability.

Likewise regulation is limited to preventing foreseeable issues, and is often only implemented after somebody suffers damages.

The difference is that regulations are imposed by a third party whose interests may not be aligned with those who are actually involved in the matter. This is good in circumstances where there are externalities, for example just because I'm okay with entering an agreement with a company to use my backyard to store toxic waste doesn't mean my neighbors would be very happy. But when people are making decisions that will only affect themselves, such as what wheelchair to purchase, liability really is the more sensible consumer protection.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#207

Post by bravo22 »

eropple wrote: post #42
bravo22 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability still exists in a free market. Regulations are government's way of giving you immunity from liability laws, or not enacting them, in exchange for doing things a very specific ways. This creates moates.

> Liability still exists in a free market Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go.

Don't forget the resources and money required to bring X to the limited attention of the regulators and to ensure the regulation is sufficiently up to date and not subject to capture. I would argue it is orders of magnitude more than exploring the same through liability.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#209

Post by homefree »

minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

A better wheelchair seems like a fun project and if the costs are that extreme probably not so hard to do better (unless the costs are extreme because regulation prohibits a good market).

It’d be fun to take advancements in electric mobility devices to wheelchairs.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#210

Post by Eggs-n-Jakey »

loceng wrote: post #103
cogman10 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really cool that an electric wheelchair costs more than a luxury EV and is somehow less reliable.

Reminds me of the military industrial complex.

Ya this reminded my of a Palmer Lucky interview where he explained how the prices are created. Can't remember off the top of my head but there was substantial incentive to build with the most expensive materials, doesn't seem like the case here though.
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