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As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

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Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#71

Post by AlexandrB »

pdonis wrote: post #55
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liability still exists in a free market Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go.

> Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. In a free market, if there is a market need for more efficient achievement of redress for wronged parties, the market will produce it. > Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go. But of course relying on governments to achieve redress for wronged parties works just great. Not.

> In a free market, if there is a market need for more efficient achievement of redress for wronged parties, the market will produce it.

In our current market, many companies have worked around redress of wronged parties by mandating arbitration in various contracts.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#72

Post by alistairSH »

TechWorld01 wrote: post #40
alistairSH wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power wheelchairs are regulated (FDA) as medical devices.

I can buy an electric wheelchair at Walmart for $750. What is the issue?

As the sibling comments noted, we're talking about bespoke wheelchairs for people with severe mobility disability (MS, ALS, etc). Things like Stephen Hawking's chair.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#73

Post by wolverine876 »

mhh__ wrote: post #28
nickff wrote: post #10

Private equity discovered that regulations, compliance requirements, & other similar barriers to entry are the most effective 'moats' which allow businesses to raise prices and have little impact on demand; they are now exploiting this 'hack' ruthlessly.

That some people apparently can't see this strat with AI "safety" laws is genuinely bizarre.

How do think we should address security around AI, and the public's control over a major impact on their lives, welfare, freedom, prosperity, etc.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#74

Post by robertlagrant »

cyberax wrote: post #32
pdonis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good illustration of the difference between capitalism and a free market. In a free market, "moats" like regulatory capture would not exist . In a market like this, where the customers--wheelchair users--are generally pretty savvy about what they need, a free market would have no trouble providing products that met customer needs at an affordable cost, because customers would have meaningful choices about w…

In free market it's also OK to cut costs as much as possible, making chair that explode and kill the user one day after the warranty expires. That's why we have regulation: to establish the minimum standards. Simple medical devices like wheelchairs (Class I or Class II) are also not super over-regulated, you don't need to do clinical trials to certify them. All-in-all it'll cost you around $10m, which is not at all a…

We might think we have regulation for minimum standards, but that's not necessarily why regulations are created.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#75

Post by xcdzvyn »

cyberax wrote: post #32
pdonis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good illustration of the difference between capitalism and a free market. In a free market, "moats" like regulatory capture would not exist . In a market like this, where the customers--wheelchair users--are generally pretty savvy about what they need, a free market would have no trouble providing products that met customer needs at an affordable cost, because customers would have meaningful choices about w…

In free market it's also OK to cut costs as much as possible, making chair that explode and kill the user one day after the warranty expires. That's why we have regulation: to establish the minimum standards. Simple medical devices like wheelchairs (Class I or Class II) are also not super over-regulated, you don't need to do clinical trials to certify them. All-in-all it'll cost you around $10m, which is not at all a…

Why would I buy something that kills me the day after the warranty expires?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#76

Post by s_m_t »

deadeye wrote: post #60
alistairSH wrote: post #24

Almost as troubling, from the article "Customized wheelchairs typically last five years, but most chairs need a major repair or two during that time." What the actual fuck? Power wheelchairs run the spectrum for a few thousand USD to ten thousand plus. And they only last ~5 years, and even then with several major repairs in that period? That sounds like an absolutely atrocious durability/reliability record.

Think about it. For many users, they're in these chairs 12+ hours a day. They're not cars that get driven for an hour a two a day.

And yet my motorcycle has gone 80,000 miles without ever needing any maintenance except for a new chain and new sets of tires. Well, I've had to replace the headlight and levers and shift peg because I've crashed it off-road multiple times but that's not the motorcycles fault. I bought it for $1000 used.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#77

Post by wolverine876 »

vrc wrote: post #38
nickff wrote: post #10

Private equity discovered that regulations, compliance requirements, & other similar barriers to entry are the most effective 'moats' which allow businesses to raise prices and have little impact on demand; they are now exploiting this 'hack' ruthlessly.

It’s interesting. The regulation ostensibly protects vulnerable classes from exploitation and lets them use reimbursement structures to defray cost. At the same time it causes costs to go up and allows people to buy their way across the moat. I wonder if regulation that stipulated that a change of ownership of some percentage would require recertification of the entity would stem this a bit. Or restrictions on buying…

Not all regulation causes costs to go up. Some causes costs to go down, for example, by correcting inefficiencies created by raw game-theory market competition. Some reduce costs by creating a safer environment for investment, reducing risk. Regulation serves market participants too.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#78

Post by saulrh »

ryanong wrote: post #29

The problem isn't regulation, the problem is that the regulation isn't simple or cheap enough for small companies to get regulated.

Yeah. Don't complain about regulation existing. Complain about regulations being controlled by private equity. Complain about private equity existing. Complain about capitalism. Not about the existence of government.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#79

Post by wolverine876 »

pdonis wrote: post #55
eropple wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liability still exists in a free market Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go.

> Only if a wronged party has the resources (time, money, political capital) to pursue it. In a free market, if there is a market need for more efficient achievement of redress for wronged parties, the market will produce it. > Which is but one reason why it is deeply silly to rely on it to make a society go. But of course relying on governments to achieve redress for wronged parties works just great. Not.

Free markets are not a panacea, nor do ideal free markets ever exist anyway. Also, free markets require regulation to prevent powerful actors from making them non-free.

> the market will produce it.

Only if it's profitable. Feeding poor people, caring for the indigent, etc. isn't profitable.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#80

Post by MichaelZuo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51
kazinator wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, how would it fix things then if it wasn't private equity dominating that market? There would still be regulations that would allow public equity wheelchair makers to jack prices.

> how would it fix things then if it wasn't private equity dominating that market? I'd start importing them for less than $500 from India [1]. (Versus $1,500 to $6,000 for these jalopies.) [1] https://www.amazon.in/electric-wheelchair/s?k=electric+wheel...

The regulations don't just disappear to allow for such imports as in your example ...?
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