Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
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Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#2Lower capacity in the same form factor, but inputs are common and cheap as dirt and will be able to do the hard work of supporting grid scale battery storage. We've learned that there are many applications that do not need to capacity of lithium.
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#3Lower capacity in the same form factor, but inputs are common and cheap as dirt and will be able to do the hard work of supporting grid scale battery storage. We've learned that there are many applications that do not need to capacity of lithium.
Even if it isn't as high-capacity, a longer-lasting and safer battery over a thinner smartphone isn't a _bad_ trade-off, specially considering chips and screens get more efficient. This might have more market than stationary batteries.
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#4Lower capacity in the same form factor, but inputs are common and cheap as dirt and will be able to do the hard work of supporting grid scale battery storage. We've learned that there are many applications that do not need to capacity of lithium.
Even if it isn't as high-capacity, a longer-lasting and safer battery over a thinner smartphone isn't a _bad_ trade-off, specially considering chips and screens get more efficient. This might have more market than stationary batteries.
Are they safer? Sodium is also very highly reactive.
Otherwise agreed, I'm very happy with form factor of 5-10 year old phones.
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#5Lower capacity in the same form factor, but inputs are common and cheap as dirt and will be able to do the hard work of supporting grid scale battery storage. We've learned that there are many applications that do not need to capacity of lithium.
Not only that:
> Natron says its batteries charge and discharge at rates 10 times faster than lithium-ion, a level of immediate charge/discharge capability that makes the batteries a prime contender for the ups and downs of backup power storage. Also helping in that use case is an estimated lifespan of 50,000 cycles.
So you take up more space, but the storage system is better in every other way (agility, conflict mineral free, longevity, cost). Feels like this puts a nail in the coffin of fossil generation.
Edit: Assuming 1 cycle per day, that is a lifetime of ~137 years. More aggressive cycling is still very favorable.
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#6Keen to see these enter the hobby market as well.
Not super keen on yoloing DIY with lithium but sodium seems a bit safer
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#7Lower capacity in the same form factor, but inputs are common and cheap as dirt and will be able to do the hard work of supporting grid scale battery storage. We've learned that there are many applications that do not need to capacity of lithium.
Hopefully we can continue to lower the power requirements of our every day items and the lower capacity of these batteries will become less of an issue.
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#850 Thousand Cycles would make replacing batteries unnecessary for almost all usecases. I would love such a battery in an electric bike. Max Range would be quite limited compared to a Lithium Version but with 10x discharge capacity and functionally unlimited life you could make a beast of a commuter e-bike.
50000 Cycles would realistically mean you can charge the bike every day for a hundred years
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if it isn't as high-capacity, a longer-lasting and safer battery over a thinner smartphone isn't a _bad_ trade-off, specially considering chips and screens get more efficient. This might have more market than stationary batteries.
Are they safer? Sodium is also very highly reactive. Otherwise agreed, I'm very happy with form factor of 5-10 year old phones.
One of the claimed benefits of sodium based batteries, that I remember from the press statements of CATL, is that they don't burn, even when you but them in a fire.
The also should work in a wider temperature range, which is especially interesting for cold regions.
In the article it says, that they are using a "patented Prussian blue". Isn't CATL also using Prussian blue in their first generation sodium batteries?
Re: Lithium-free sodium batteries exit the lab and enter US production
#1050 Thousand Cycles would make replacing batteries unnecessary for almost all usecases. I would love such a battery in an electric bike. Max Range would be quite limited compared to a Lithium Version but with 10x discharge capacity and functionally unlimited life you could make a beast of a commuter e-bike. 50000 Cycles would realistically mean you can charge the bike every day for a hundred years
The first generation will work like that.
Then they will introduce various defects into the manufacturing process to decrease the lifespan (and they'll say it's cost) and the batteries will last 10 years max. Maybe 15 if you're lucky.