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Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

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Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#91

Post by thriftwy »

kubb wrote: post #90
thriftwy wrote: post #89

> Russian shells hit the Plant Genetic Resources Bank in Kharkiv. Founded in 01908, the gene bank preserved the seeds of 160,000 varieties of crops and plant seeds Founded by Russian Empire, propped forward by the USSR. Both of these entities see so much undeserved slander from Ukrainian state and the whole world, so that neither deserve to inherit it. Have your own Mickey Mouse Decolonial seed bank, use that one. Sa…

This is some next level muddled thinking, does the Russian propaganda talk about “slander” and former territories of the empire “deserving” to be destroyed for not wanting to be an imperial province anymore?

[flagged]

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#92

Post by thriftwy »

jacobolus wrote: post #8

I recently came across the videos of Oregon State horticulturalist Andrew Millison, who is an amazingly clear presenter about permaculture: https://www.youtube.com/@amillison/videos For example, he has nice videos about chinampas in Mexico https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86gyW0vUmVs , a medieval Indian canal tunnel of a style found throughout Iran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kplvq0C-cdE , efforts to return a Hawa…

Interestingly enough, the century XX saw a tremendous shift of agriculture from northern, wet lands to southern, sunny land. You could drain your aquifer but you could not add extra sun up north.

I wonder if the trends reverses as aquifers are done with, and agriculture in places like US's original 13 colonies or middle Russian lands or Prussia or northern France becomes trendy again.

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#93

Post by kubb »

thriftwy wrote: post #91
kubb wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some next level muddled thinking, does the Russian propaganda talk about “slander” and former territories of the empire “deserving” to be destroyed for not wanting to be an imperial province anymore?

[flagged]

How the hell are you offended about people saying that Russia is following an imperialist policy? That’s a plain fact.

And you’re blaming the victims of that policy saying that they had it coming because they hate it!

A seed bank is not something that can be started from one day to another. It requires decades of continuous work from thousands of people, in this case most of them were Ukrainians.

And you would have it destroyed because you’ve decided they don’t deserve it.

Do you want anything that used to be a part of the Russian empire to be burned to the ground as punishment?

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#94

Post by affgrff2 »

thriftwy wrote: post #92
jacobolus wrote: post #8

I recently came across the videos of Oregon State horticulturalist Andrew Millison, who is an amazingly clear presenter about permaculture: https://www.youtube.com/@amillison/videos For example, he has nice videos about chinampas in Mexico https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86gyW0vUmVs , a medieval Indian canal tunnel of a style found throughout Iran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kplvq0C-cdE , efforts to return a Hawa…

Interestingly enough, the century XX saw a tremendous shift of agriculture from northern, wet lands to southern, sunny land. You could drain your aquifer but you could not add extra sun up north. I wonder if the trends reverses as aquifers are done with, and agriculture in places like US's original 13 colonies or middle Russian lands or Prussia or northern France becomes trendy again.

Prussia?

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#95

Post by b112 »

thriftwy wrote: post #92
jacobolus wrote: post #8

I recently came across the videos of Oregon State horticulturalist Andrew Millison, who is an amazingly clear presenter about permaculture: https://www.youtube.com/@amillison/videos For example, he has nice videos about chinampas in Mexico https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86gyW0vUmVs , a medieval Indian canal tunnel of a style found throughout Iran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kplvq0C-cdE , efforts to return a Hawa…

Interestingly enough, the century XX saw a tremendous shift of agriculture from northern, wet lands to southern, sunny land. You could drain your aquifer but you could not add extra sun up north. I wonder if the trends reverses as aquifers are done with, and agriculture in places like US's original 13 colonies or middle Russian lands or Prussia or northern France becomes trendy again.

I don't think this is entirely true. I know in Canada we grow wheat, soy, rapeseed and rye in the Prairies, which has a harder time with traditional yellow human corn.

And wheat is a very important staple. We feed a lot of the world!

So while there is some fallow land, this exists everywhere, and I don't think repurposing will help.

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#96

Post by thriftwy »

kubb wrote: post #93
thriftwy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How the hell are you offended about people saying that Russia is following an imperialist policy? That’s a plain fact. And you’re blaming the victims of that policy saying that they had it coming because they hate it! A seed bank is not something that can be started from one day to another. It requires decades of continuous work from thousands of people, in this case most of them were Ukrainians. And you would have i…

I don't view the creation of Russian Empire in a bad light - quite contrary, most other historical options would likely been worse, up and until 1917 at least. And as a Russian I believe that Russian Empire is a part of essential legacy of the humankind. Same with USSR despite its tragic and cruel history.

With the assumption that "imperialistic" policy is an inherently bad thing you should not be entitled to those seeds, which it seems you've stolen anyway.

With regards to burning stuff to the ground, I'd like to hear the Syria story first.

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#97

Post by Metus »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #83
MostlyStable wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant dead end in the sense that their genes aren't going anywhere. 90+% of home gardeners don't save seeds, and the few that do are almost certainly not preserving the strains they think they are since, most gardeners grow multiple varieties at the same time that are all getting cross pollinated. It was not meant to imply anything about the viability of the strain they are growing, many of which are fantastic heir…

I keep and grow as much seed as possible. It is the only way to adapt plants to your local environment and farming methods and needs. I get plants that are much easier to grow, then breed for taste or other features. Thats how the heirlooms were created. If you are growing grains and harvesting by hand eat the seeds from shorter plants. Taller plants are easier to handle. And give more straw for animal bedding. Talle…

> I keep and grow as much seed as possible. It is the only way to adapt plants to your local environment and farming methods and needs. I get plants that are much easier to grow, then breed for taste or other features. Thats how the heirlooms were created.

Do you actively select and breed the plants you grow, or does the selection happen "by itself" since only plants that are somehow adapted to local condition reach maturity?

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#98

Post by Metus »

prox wrote: post #48
favorited wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks! I'd never heard of The Long Now Foundation before.

Interesting. Gets you wondering what else you might not have heard of.

> Interesting. Gets you wondering what else you might not have heard of.

Consider how much of a rabbit hole YouTube can be and then imagine that the subsection of humanity that uses or is able to use YouTube is just a small part of it. A few topics and projects get a lot of attention but there are - I suppose - millions more with a dedicated fan base.

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#99

Post by Metus »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #49
Suppafly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a distinction without a difference there.

No, it's not. Seeds and even embryos are to DNA what a running piece of software (and especially, a Lisp/Smalltalk image) is to its source code: the latter stores only a fraction of the former. And then consider that life is always built by other life, there is no bootstrapping from source code happening. Compare with Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting Trust", and realize that the most important bits about life…

> No, it's not. Seeds and even embryos are to DNA what a running piece of software (and especially, a Lisp/Smalltalk image) is to its source code: the latter stores only a fraction of the former.

Thank you for pointing out this similarity. While a piece of software is infinitely replicable - a simple git clone from GitHub would suffice -, the surrounding software ecosystem - compilers, interpreters, installers, linkers, operating systems - needs to be in place, as well as the hardware.

Re: Gene banks aren’t enough to save the world’s food

#100

Post by kubb »

thriftwy wrote: post #96
kubb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the hell are you offended about people saying that Russia is following an imperialist policy? That’s a plain fact. And you’re blaming the victims of that policy saying that they had it coming because they hate it! A seed bank is not something that can be started from one day to another. It requires decades of continuous work from thousands of people, in this case most of them were Ukrainians. And you would have i…

I don't view the creation of Russian Empire in a bad light - quite contrary, most other historical options would likely been worse, up and until 1917 at least. And as a Russian I believe that Russian Empire is a part of essential legacy of the humankind. Same with USSR despite its tragic and cruel history. With the assumption that "imperialistic" policy is an inherently bad thing you should not be entitled to those s…

You think that the EU was doing rocket strikes in Syria?

I understand that Russians need to have a story to claim that their aggression on their neighbors is justified.

But how contrived the story is is baffling.

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