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Every map of China is wrong

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Re: Every map of China is wrong

#121

Post by throwawayqqq11 »

lmz wrote: post #110
TrulyBright wrote: post #14

South Korea does it too. It forbids Google from access to its official map. Only local enterprises are licensed to get it. Precisely, the government bans the export of geographical data abroad. Check out the 243rd page of a US government report on trade barrier: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20NTE%20Report_1.p...

Note the bias against China in the comments here vs South Korea which is effectively doing the same thing.

Note the topic is about china and any restriction of "public" data will gather negative comments. The only bias i am seeing is yours.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#122

Post by rob74 »

petesergeant wrote: post #107
Reason077 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discontinuity at the border isn't a big issue compared to all locations in the country being wrong relative to the satellite view. If Google cared enough, I'm sure they could find a solution - since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws. But Google doesn't operate in China so they don't care that much and are presumably happy to leave things the way they are. Also, keeping th…

> since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws I suspect that in practice that’s not true; there are a lot of ways China could make life difficult for a big international tech company, from looking the other way regarding IP theft to arresting people associated with Google on spying charges when they’re there on personal trips

Also, Google currently doesn't really have a presence in China (and, despite some to-and-fro, currently doesn't intend to reenter the market either), so it's probably not that important to them to fix these issues. I wonder if they actively update the map or if it's stuck at some point in the past?

This isn't the first time they have done something like this, Germany was stuck with Street View imagery from 2008 (and limited to larger cities) until some time last year when they decided to finally start updating it again. This was due to some privacy hubbub back when StreetView was introduced that resulted in a law allowing building owners and/or inhabitants to request that their building be blurred on StreetView. Mind you, this law didn't forbid StreetView, but it looks like Google just lost interest, or decided to wait it out...

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#123

Post by stonekyx »

Intralexical wrote: post #75

The CCP newspaper report on this is… Interesting: > Faced with such a "hard nut", Li Chengming strengthened his confidence: "In the war years, Communists were not afraid of death. This difficulty is nothing! We must do it! And we must do it beautifully!" Under the guidance of veteran experts, he led his team to fight for a thousand years. Over many days and nights, a set of nonlinear confidentiality processing techno…

Lol, typical Chinese propaganda speech I'd say. But just to be fair,

> he led his team to fight for a thousand years

The page you linked to actually said "more than a thousand days and nights", not years.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#124

Post by masklinn »

throwaway4good wrote: post #105
jillesvangurp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a means to keep detailed maps out of the hands of an enemy it's indeed not great. As it's all rather obvious to reverse engineer this and people have indeed done so. But as a means to force foreign companies to use Chinese data suppliers this works perfectly. Because using this software would be illegal in China and anyone looking to business there legally would end up having to use Chinese data centers, Chinese d…

Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es.

> Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit.

One-way knowledge flows is an ubiquitous and consistent facet of china's commercial policies.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#125

Post by indrora »

TrulyBright wrote: post #14

South Korea does it too. It forbids Google from access to its official map. Only local enterprises are licensed to get it. Precisely, the government bans the export of geographical data abroad. Check out the 243rd page of a US government report on trade barrier: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20NTE%20Report_1.p...

The functional implications of this are a little different.

Google, Bing, and others specifically have bitmap maps that are served out of Korea for this purpose. You can see it in Bing since the maps for Bing Maps use the classic Microsoft ~~ditches and diversions~~ Streets and Trips style maps.

In Google, there’s a few spots in Japan that are rendered in Korea at some zoom levels.

There’s been a lot of discussion on how to improve OSM in SK but it’s often through analog holes that are plausibly illegitimate.

I talked about it previously. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38555567

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#126

Post by himinlomax »

lmz wrote: post #110
TrulyBright wrote: post #14

South Korea does it too. It forbids Google from access to its official map. Only local enterprises are licensed to get it. Precisely, the government bans the export of geographical data abroad. Check out the 243rd page of a US government report on trade barrier: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20NTE%20Report_1.p...

Note the bias against China in the comments here vs South Korea which is effectively doing the same thing.

South Korea is currently at war with a hostile oppressive totalitarian neighbour.

China is at war with its people.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#127

Post by GordonS »

jampekka wrote: post #119
urbandw311er wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just going to ignore the fact that China has been illegally building dozens if not hundreds of military bases there in international waters and is now trying to claim that it owns this territory?

That probably makes the paranoia even more founded? Especially when their (perceived) adversary has the habit of regularly starting illegal wars.

And let's not forget that the US recently stationed troops on a tiny Taiwanese island that's less than ten miles from the Chinese mainland. And at a time when the US is sabre-rattling over Taiwan, and is about to give Taiwan billions of dollars for "defence". And elsewhere in the world, the US almost seems to be trying to start WWIII.

In the current climate, being paranoid is the sensible option.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#128

Post by nirui »

ammo1662 wrote: post #96
nirui wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my memory is still correct, in China camera products must have their GPS module removed/disabled before they're licensed for sale. Since these products looked the same from the outside, and are commonly used by everyone who wants to, nobody will bother to check every single one. Unless of course, if the camera gets too close to (say) a military/civil defense installation (often includes their office buildings), th…

Most of the cameras do not have GPS module. And for some cameras like Canon 5D Mark IV [1], or 6D Mark II [2], they do have GPS even for Chinese market. However, for the Camera which have GPS module, you will need additional filing to license your product. So some of the companies just hide the feature. Clearly it is not "must have GPS removed". [1] https://www.canon.com.cn/product/5dmk4/spec.html [2] https://www.can…

That was completely from my memory, and I don't work in the industry, so my information/interpretation maybe inaccurate.

Thanks for the additional info.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#129

Post by lmz »

himinlomax wrote: post #126
lmz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note the bias against China in the comments here vs South Korea which is effectively doing the same thing.

South Korea is currently at war with a hostile oppressive totalitarian neighbour. China is at war with its people.

Doesn't Taiwan still claim the mainland as its own, at least in theory? Also there are border conflicts with e.g. India.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#130

Post by refactor_master »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #32

Man the author did not have to resort to such a click baity title to get people to read. “Why Google Maps can’t map China” would have been accurate and not droll. I just opened Apple Maps and it looks perfectly fine. Tested about 10 areas and even rural areas and there was no issue. Stopped reading immediately after. I have no interest in supporting this crap.

I tried using Apple Maps in China last year, and while it “looks” just fine, it definitely isn’t. In Guangzhou everything was off by 50-500 meters until it sometimes wasn’t. Completely unreliable compared to a Chinese solution.
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