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Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

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Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#21

Post by eru »

thih9 wrote: post #20
cjk2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one will be double checking. On at least three occasions now I’ve had to correct monumental fuck ups in mine and my ex wife’s medical records. One nearly lead to a transfusion of an incompatible blood type. I suspect this will lead to a decline in accountability with there being another party to blame rather than the medical professional. The LLM did it, not me.

Alluding to FAFO, a computer cannot find out, so a computer shouldn’t fuck around. I’m hoping for a lot of legal precedent showing that an AI cannot be blamed, especially in a medical context.

Companies and people should have liability, but mere tools like AIs should not.

How would that even work?

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#22

Post by PlunderBunny »

nvy wrote: post #2

The root cause of this is that the billing system (which varies by Province) by which doctors actually get paid is a fee-for-service model. That means the system incentivizes doctors to see patients by only allowing them to get paid for actually seeing the patient: Give someone a vaccine? $15. Family doctor routine checkup? $34. The system is set up to reward the kind of doctor who sees 6 patients an hour and is on t…

My limited experience with dental practice payors (e.g. the NHS in England) is that it's an ogre's choice: Pay for over-treatment, or pay for neglect.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#23

Post by cjk2 »

h_tbob wrote: post #7

I talked to a therapist who hated doing notes. So I proposed a solution: Use Microsoft's "seeing AI" to describe the children playing during "play therapy". Then have a camera take a picture every few minutes, and then have chatgpt come up with the story based on the pictures and transcript of the audio, transcribed with openai whisper. Business in a nutshell!

This is not really how therapists work. It’s how it looks like they work.

This is a really big problem with the AI industry. People don’t know the domain well enough and assume it is a fit.

Oh look, just throw this at it and done. Simples!

Then you find that therapists, of the non quack variety at least, spend years working on how to remove bias from their assessment and learning subtle cues and indicators from their patients. And have to write in a certain prose and have to qualify their results with peers.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#24

Post by notachatbot1234 »

h_tbob wrote: post #7

I talked to a therapist who hated doing notes. So I proposed a solution: Use Microsoft's "seeing AI" to describe the children playing during "play therapy". Then have a camera take a picture every few minutes, and then have chatgpt come up with the story based on the pictures and transcript of the audio, transcribed with openai whisper. Business in a nutshell!

Ah, the freedom of having no consideration for privacy or ethics. No one should record children and feed the imagery to a ominous third-party.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#25

Post by arinazari »

viraptor wrote: post #17
r0ckarong wrote: post #5

I just hope someone is double checking whatever notes are taken. My experience with LLM tells me they're fantastically bad at remembering and even worse at producing factual stuff that can be used without context.

Depends on the system I guess, but I'm familiar with a local one which is very much tuned for just summarising/rewriting. It seems very good at what it's doing and since it's working from the transcripts, it's actually picking up some things the doctors were not concentrating on because it wasn't the main issue. I've never seen doctors so keen to adopt a new tech before.

Which one? And what sorts of things is it picking up on?

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#27

Post by yardstick »

eru wrote: post #21
thih9 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alluding to FAFO, a computer cannot find out, so a computer shouldn’t fuck around. I’m hoping for a lot of legal precedent showing that an AI cannot be blamed, especially in a medical context.

Companies and people should have liability, but mere tools like AIs should not. How would that even work?

Liability should imo be placed on those that selected the tools and arranged their implementation without providing due care and procedures to ensure the validity of output data.

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#28

Post by cjk2 »

viraptor wrote: post #19
cjk2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one will be double checking. On at least three occasions now I’ve had to correct monumental fuck ups in mine and my ex wife’s medical records. One nearly lead to a transfusion of an incompatible blood type. I suspect this will lead to a decline in accountability with there being another party to blame rather than the medical professional. The LLM did it, not me.

> No one will be double checking. Yeah no, I can tell you from experience with a clinic that things are checked. Let's talk about the real issues and how to enforce double-checking for people who would ignore it. Hyperboly like that is not helpful. But, I wonder if those systems should randomly insert obvious markers to help here. "This has not been read." "Doctor was asleep at the wheel." "Derp derp derp." - like th…

You are really naive if you think checking anything is universally done to any standard anywhere on the planet. And writing it off as hyperbole is dismissive.

I’ve literally been in a meeting with a doctor in the last week who wrote something down wrong on the damn computer in front of me. And I’m talking a specialist consultant. I’m sure if I didn’t mention it that the incorrect data would be checked over and over again to make sure it was correctly incorrect…

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#29

Post by viraptor »

eru wrote: post #21
thih9 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alluding to FAFO, a computer cannot find out, so a computer shouldn’t fuck around. I’m hoping for a lot of legal precedent showing that an AI cannot be blamed, especially in a medical context.

Companies and people should have liability, but mere tools like AIs should not. How would that even work?

I'm the simplest way - if you allow AI to make decisions, you're responsible. Like this https://bc.ctvnews.ca/air-canada-s-chatbot-gave-a-b-c-man-th...

So far we're doing pretty good with that idea globally (I've not seen any case going the other way in court)

Re: Ontario family doctor says new AI notetaking saved her job

#30

Post by monocultured »

Just the other day there were news about how many mistakes the AI-assisted journaling caused – wrong names, wrong diagnoses, typos (buksmärta -> kuksmärta which is hilarious but serious).

Some of it is surely teething problems, but unless there is a robust check upon implementation it might just add another layer of inefficient new public management make-work to the system.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/ai-journaler-i-sjukvarden-k...

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