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Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

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Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#321

Post by nsguy »

adhamsalama wrote: post #96
nsguy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UN officials don't say it's genocide and anyways they're not the arbiters of that claim. Changing the subject to Hamas is not bad faith. Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. It's impossible for Israel to "separate" its war on Hamas from the population within it resides. The ignoring of Hamas by the anti-Israel crowd is what's bad faith. Do you separate the Russian…

Israelis freely and democratically elected Satanyahu (among other racist and genocidal maniacs who call for the genocide and destruction of all of Palestine), who is literally their longest serving PM, who literally brags about making any efforts about a Palestinian state fail, while Hamas was elected once 18 years ago and half of the population today weren't even alive then.

The reason the Palestinians don't have elections is that Hamas would get voted for again. It enjoys popular support. This 18 year ago and half the population thing is bullshit. Half the population doesn't get to vote anyways when half the population is under 18. That's how democracy works.

On the Israeli side the reason Netanyahu and most Israelis object to a Palestinian state is that it's clearly just going to become a base for launching attacks on Israel, just like Gaza. Palestinians don't want a two state solution, they want to destroy Israel. They say it explicitly in every survey. Go watch videos on YouTube of Palestinians in the west bank interviewed about this question prior to Oct 7th.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#322

Post by nsguy »

Georgelemental wrote: post #49
nsguy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted “long live Oct. 7,” praising that day’s attacks by Hamas on Israel." https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-pra... https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-get... I think Israel's PR machine is very ineffective. It's swamped b…

> bombing of hospitals https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hosp... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-... https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-i... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-k... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-isr... https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-l...

I briefly scanned through the links but they conflate "damaged", "crater near hospital close enough for fragments to hit hospital" and other unknowns.

the WHO link which we can maybe take as authoritative does not refer to any bombed hospital. We all know there was a huge battle in Al Shifa where the IDF killed an arrested hundreds of Hamas operatives (and has published videos from their interrogations and videos from the battles going on inside the hospital).

"A field hospital in the embattled Gaza Strip run by neighboring Jordan reportedly can no longer provide health care due to Israeli attacks and the disruption of access roads.

The hospital in Gaza is out of service due to damage inflicted by Israeli attacks, as well as Israeli bombing of surrounding areas and the disruption of access roads, as reported on Jordan's official television channel on Saturday."

from one of the articles does not mention the actual hospital was bombed. it says "damage due to attacks" (unclear) and "bombing of the surrounding areas" (which is not bombing a hospital).

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#323

Post by nsguy »

xyst wrote: post #67
nsguy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted “long live Oct. 7,” praising that day’s attacks by Hamas on Israel." https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-pra... https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-get... I think Israel's PR machine is very ineffective. It's swamped b…

In the Vancouver demonstration referenced by “Eby”, I see the chants were from a group called “ Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).” Appears to be a known terrorist organization. Is this organization affiliated with ALL or most of the college campus organizers we see across the USA? Something I’ll have to ask and bring up. Something smells odd. In the second article, it references a group or network…

I would have no problem with protests that clearly decouple themselves from the militant groups and clearly call for peace for everyone (ideally with some idea of how we actually get there). I would join those. My problem is I'm not seeing the decoupling and I'm not seeing calls for peace. I'm seeing calls to punish Israelis (from burn down Tel Aviv to divestment and boycott) which in my opinion does not help peace at all and definitely a militant tone associated with that.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#324

Post by nsguy »

Georgelemental wrote: post #72
nsguy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UN officials don't say it's genocide and anyways they're not the arbiters of that claim. Changing the subject to Hamas is not bad faith. Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. It's impossible for Israel to "separate" its war on Hamas from the population within it resides. The ignoring of Hamas by the anti-Israel crowd is what's bad faith. Do you separate the Russian…

Netanyahu and his administration actively worked to bolster Hamas and keep them in power: https://original.antiwar.com/connor_freeman/2023/10/26/netan... So yes, let's go after all supporters of terrorism!

It is more nuanced than this. Netanyahu did take a divide and conquer strategy with Hamas and the PA. That much is true. But the Palestinians have agency here and we shouldn't take that away from them. I don't think saying "actively worked to bolster" is that accurate. It was along the lines of better the devil we know . Like many things in this story, it doesn't yield itself to simplistic observations. I don't have a lot of love for Netanyahu but he's certainly not a supporter of Hamas terrorism.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#325

Post by thebytefairy »

bjourne wrote: post #185
siva7 wrote: post #147

> “There’s been a total change in the way Google responds to employees trying to have a voice in their workplace,” the fired software engineer said. “It’s night and day from the Google of even five, 10 years ago.” Having a political voice is different than having a voice against sexual harassment at the workplace. Please don't mix things that don't belong together. Radically expressing your political voice during you…

Who says that a totalitarian attitude is desirable?? Freedom of speech implies that expressing your opinions should not cost you your job.

Then we can argue they were not performing their job duties instead. How long should one be allowed to protest on the clock?

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#326

Post by xw38011 »

tolerantgravity wrote: post #111
rufus_foreman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Rule number one of being a rebel. Don’t do it at work By doing it at work, they are risking high paying jobs, putting their careers at risk. In public. Risking something for a protest is the whole point. To the extent that they do that with their eyes open, risking high paying jobs, they are heroes. If they do that thinking the people who control Google will be fine with that and they will still keep their jobs, t…

Then they shouldn't be suing imo. Suing implies they think they shouldn't have been fired, which means their risk was not intentional. So they're not heroes.

> Suing implies they think they shouldn't have been fired

Not necessarily. Unfortunately law suit as media event is a thing now.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#327

Post by runarberg »

nsguy wrote: post #321
adhamsalama wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israelis freely and democratically elected Satanyahu (among other racist and genocidal maniacs who call for the genocide and destruction of all of Palestine), who is literally their longest serving PM, who literally brags about making any efforts about a Palestinian state fail, while Hamas was elected once 18 years ago and half of the population today weren't even alive then.

The reason the Palestinians don't have elections is that Hamas would get voted for again. It enjoys popular support. This 18 year ago and half the population thing is bullshit. Half the population doesn't get to vote anyways when half the population is under 18. That's how democracy works. On the Israeli side the reason Netanyahu and most Israelis object to a Palestinian state is that it's clearly just going to becom…

> Palestinians don't want a two state solution

This is a pretty generalizing statement about a whole nation that surely has varying opinions on the subject. I would even say a bit racist and dehumanizing.

Can you share the survey’s you claim exists which demonstrates this?

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#328

Post by Georgelemental »

nsguy wrote: post #324
Georgelemental wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netanyahu and his administration actively worked to bolster Hamas and keep them in power: https://original.antiwar.com/connor_freeman/2023/10/26/netan... So yes, let's go after all supporters of terrorism!

It is more nuanced than this. Netanyahu did take a divide and conquer strategy with Hamas and the PA. That much is true. But the Palestinians have agency here and we shouldn't take that away from them. I don't think saying "actively worked to bolster" is that accurate. It was along the lines of better the devil we know . Like many things in this story, it doesn't yield itself to simplistic observations. I don't have…

> It was along the lines of better the devil we know

Israel also "knew" the PA, but worked to marginalize them anyway.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#329

Post by Georgelemental »

nsguy wrote: post #320
defrost wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. Hamas was voted in 18 years ago with less than 45% of the vote on a platform of clean government and keeping peace with Israel based on the 1967 borders. Hamas today is not the Hamas that was voted in, very few Palestinians alive today voted for them.

Hamas today is exactly the same Hamas that was voted in. If elections were to happen again, Hamas would still get voted in, that's why they haven't happened. That's the reality which anti-Israelis are determined to ignore. % of the popular vote doesn't matter. US presidents also get voted with less than 50% of the popular vote. Their platform isn't and never was peace within the 1967 borders. Again that's the reality…

> If elections were to happen again, Hamas would still get voted in, that's why they haven't happened.

If Hamas believed they would win, wouldn't they be more inclined to hold elections in the territory they control?

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#330

Post by Georgelemental »

nsguy wrote: post #321
adhamsalama wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israelis freely and democratically elected Satanyahu (among other racist and genocidal maniacs who call for the genocide and destruction of all of Palestine), who is literally their longest serving PM, who literally brags about making any efforts about a Palestinian state fail, while Hamas was elected once 18 years ago and half of the population today weren't even alive then.

The reason the Palestinians don't have elections is that Hamas would get voted for again. It enjoys popular support. This 18 year ago and half the population thing is bullshit. Half the population doesn't get to vote anyways when half the population is under 18. That's how democracy works. On the Israeli side the reason Netanyahu and most Israelis object to a Palestinian state is that it's clearly just going to becom…

> Half the population doesn't get to vote anyways when half the population is under 18. That's how democracy works.

But the entire population gets to be blown up anyways by 2000-pound bombs. That's how mass murder works.

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