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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
801–810 of 902 posts
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#802I wonder what other existing programs Will Systemd attempt to replace in the future. My bet is /bin/sh, maybe they went further to replace the entire POSIX utilities.
filesystemd, replacing ext4/btrfs/etc. It will come with `filectl` for all your file operations, so you will no longer need `cd`, `pwd`, `touch`, `rm`, `mkdir`, `cat`, `grep`, `find`, etc. Instead you do everything through `filectl` commands. This will deprecate many commands from GNU coreutils, which is a good thing because replacing things is always good. Then, since programs are just files, and filesystem will be…
And one day you boot into the single mode and can't execute a file because you you can't connect to systemd D-BUS error 0xDEADBEAF contact your systemd admnistrator
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#803A similar idea was tested in an experimental BSD clone in Berkeley in mid-1980s. (Great sorry I havenʼt kept link to the description, so rephrase with my own words. Maybe this was in the McKusickʼs book?) No suid or sgid was allowed. A daemon started from init and listening on a socket listened for connections, checked permissions and run the specified binary with requested permissions. A caller had to interact with…
Listen socket (especially network socket), accept remote commands, and execute them as root.
Sounds like a nice tool:)
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#804Earlier quoted context omitted.
All these ideas that tie permissions to a file completely fail when files need to be accessed either over network, or inside a container. I can see how the original authors didn't consider these cases, because they simply weren't there yet... but knowing what we know today: SUID is an awful idea.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what’s a scenario that you run a SUID/GUID binary from a network or a container? If you access and run, it’s SSH or similar, so it works on the system scope. If it’s a container built correctly, it has its own users and isolation already, so it shouldn’t be able to fire any binary on your “base” system, and any effect is already in the container scope. I have never had the need to SUID/GUI…
> but what’s a scenario that you run a SUID/GUID binary from a network or a container?
A lot of publicly available container images require elevated permissions to simply function, not for anything extraordinary. So, the user in container needs to be a superuser. It's often even not to perform the program's main function, but because various ordinary things in Linux require elevated permissions.
> container built correctly
That's a spherical horse in vacuum. If you write code s.t. there aren't any errors, you don't need to do error handling, right? You don't get to choose how containers are built. You need to deal with all possibilities of how containers can be built.
Network filesystem? -- /usr/shared, /usr/opt and /usr/local? That's by design... very typical for cluster management software to mount these from NAS. It's also very not typical to keep these as "only text files". Pretty sure a lot of Google's stuff installs automatically into /usr/shared. I think even Go compiler and other infra at some point was being installed there by default.
Finally: the same argument as with containers. You, for some reason, are trying to fantasize the world where problems don't exist because you chose the world w/o problems. But this isn't the real world. It's a fantasy. In real world, with or without reason, programmers and other computer users will do what's possible, not what you want them to do.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#805Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I really think you need some time away from a PC. You seem to be taking this incredibly personally. You can feel how you feel about the general public, but knowingly and willfully staying in a bubble is only detrimental to yourself. You will ultimately become what you hate. A person unwilling to move with the current change of society.
> A person unwilling to move with the current change of society.
Well if society goes towards fascism like the Netherlands, then yes I'm very proud of not moving along with that.
The best remaining option is to live side by side with those people and interact with them as least as possible, and hinder them as much as possible in their attempts at legislating, like using the first chamber to block things. Mind you, this is already the status quo in the US where the democrats and republicans use whatever means at their disposal to undermine the other.
We didn't really have this phenomenon in the Netherlands because we don't have this "the winner takes all" kind of political system but parties need to collaborate. But the rise of the extreme-right makes it impossible to cooperate any longer.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#806Earlier quoted context omitted.
His positions are mostly controversial because he challenges the way things have been done for a long time. Whenever he presents some new idea/architecture my first reaction is often confusion. Why would he change something that has worked so well for such a long time? But then I take the time to read up on the reasoning behind his ideas and then things start to make sense. Even when something isn't exactly broken, t…
There have been lots of suggestions for how to improve linux / unix for a very long time. The first great war I remember, and I'm sure there were more before I was around, was DJB vs everyone. For the most part, I think his designs, "weird" as they were / are, are still better than almost every crackpot variation of them that's come since.
Dude you cannot compare DJB to Pottering.
DJB is a genius, responsible for all of the non-NSA asymmetric cryptosystems, symmetric cryptosystems, and authenticated encryption algorithms supported by TLS (curve25519, chacha20, Poly1305). He's also the one who got us off of the footgun-by-design, broken-random-number-generator-will-spray-your-privatekey-everywhere nondeterministic nonce signature schemes prior to Ed25519 (the first standardized signature scheme which required deterministic nonces). Oh yeah and the only post-quantum cryptosystem that OpenSSH was comfortable shipping.
And pottering gave us pulseaudio. The gift that keeps on giving.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#807> Or in other words: the target command is invoked in an isolated exec context, freshly forked off PID 1, without inheriting any context from the client (well, admittedly, we do propagate $TERM, but that's an explicit exception, i.e. allowlist rather than denylist). I think in practice, this is going to be an endless source of problems, so much so that it won't be adopted. The usual use case of sudo is that you have…
One binary to rule them all, one binary to find them, one binary to bring them all and in the darkness bind them; in the Land of Lennart where the shadows lie. Bwaahahaha.
This gave me a genuine chuckle. Clever humor, thank you.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#808I wonder what other existing programs Will Systemd attempt to replace in the future. My bet is /bin/sh, maybe they went further to replace the entire POSIX utilities.
Let’s call it GNU/systemd/linux
I think it's more that they're replacing the traditional GNU programs with systemd.
That will result in systemd/Linux.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#809Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't delete your HN account.
Interesting! IANAL, but I think this should be basic functionality, ever since the recent-ish European and Californian privacy regulations. Although I think a quick e-mail to hn@ycombinator.com would suffice.
Would it really? Asking cause genuinely curious, literally the only online forum I can't remove my past public information from is HN.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#810fix pulseaudio and then we can talk.
Someone else did it and the better pulseaudio is called pipewire. Can't wait for that to happen to all the parts of systemd too, one day.