Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced • Hacker News Board

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#731

Post by cryptonector » Wed, May 01, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

deng wrote: post #646

cryptonector wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with u/constantcrying. This should not be part of systemd. It should be a separate service [started by systemd]. Reasons: - systemd is a large beast -- no need to make it larger with unrelated things - the Unix philosophy seems to be applicable here - the result should be portable to non-systemd systems

> systemd is a large beast -- no need to make it larger with unrelated things I think I sufficiently explained why it is very much related. > the Unix philosophy seems to be applicable here Systemd very much follows the unix philosophy. It is not one big binary, but actually consists of dozens and dozens of tools communicating with each other through protocols. > the result should be portable to non-systemd systems P…

> I think I sufficiently explained why it is very much related.

This:

| Systemd already handles logins

?

But I don't see why a bring-up/shutdown system should handle logins.

> Systemd very much follows the unix philosophy. It is not one big binary, but actually consists of dozens and dozens of tools communicating with each other through protocols.

That is fine. As long as this service (sudo replacement) is a standalone, separate daemon started by a systemd unit, I'm happy. If it's a core part of systemd itself then I'm not happy.

> Portable on what basis? POSIX?

Or Linux / glibc / musl, sure, why not. Some people (no, not me) want to run Linux w/o systemd. The point is that a sudo replacement service should be fairly portable to the universe of UNIX/Unix/BSD/Linux.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#732

Post by j0057 » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:08 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #698

magicalhippo wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or in Linus Torvalds' words[1]: It does become a problem when you have a system service developer who thinks the universe revolves around him, and nobody else matters, and people sending him bug-reports are annoyances that should be ignored rather than acknowledged and fixed. At that point, it's a problem. [1]: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/580

But even then, system service developers don't try to 'own the whole world' so to speak and so they do need to play nicely with others. Mr. Poopering philosophy is the minute a dependencies maintainer becomes a thorn in his side - he absorbs that project into systemd. The distribution packagers follow like starving dogs on a hunt

> Mr. Poopering

This is childish and petty, I suggest you delete your account.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#733

Post by chillfox » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:11 PM UTC

I am really not looking forward to systemd taking over another part of the system with how unpolished and flaky their replacements usually are.

Anyway, I have been using doas instead of sudo for a while on servers, it’s rock solid if you don’t need some of the more advanced features of sudo.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#734

Post by nottorp » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:12 PM UTC

PublicSimple wrote: post #726

nottorp wrote: post #622

Yeah, Pottering's quest to overcomplicate Linux continues...

It’s fitting he’s now at Microsoft. That’s the MS way.

You don't say... reminds me of the Nokia dude... Elop was his name?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#735

Post by isatty » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:12 PM UTC

I wish systemd would die or just be just an init system. This whole thread is people suggesting vague and non obvious solutions to things that people already knew how to do with just linux utilities now with some weird other binary.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#736

Post by etc-hosts » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:13 PM UTC

j0057 wrote: post #732

calvinmorrison wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, system service developers don't try to 'own the whole world' so to speak and so they do need to play nicely with others. Mr. Poopering philosophy is the minute a dependencies maintainer becomes a thorn in his side - he absorbs that project into systemd. The distribution packagers follow like starving dogs on a hunt

> Mr. Poopering This is childish and petty, I suggest you delete your account.

You can't delete your HN account.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#737

Post by calvinmorrison » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:15 PM UTC

j0057 wrote: post #732

calvinmorrison wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, system service developers don't try to 'own the whole world' so to speak and so they do need to play nicely with others. Mr. Poopering philosophy is the minute a dependencies maintainer becomes a thorn in his side - he absorbs that project into systemd. The distribution packagers follow like starving dogs on a hunt

> Mr. Poopering This is childish and petty, I suggest you delete your account.

No thanks!

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#738

Post by pwg » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:48 PM UTC

SR2Z wrote: post #218

StimDeck wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSH being linked to XZ doesn’t.

Why wouldn't SSH be linked to XZ? Isn't it supported as a compression method for connections?

SSH does not support/use lzma/xz compression method for the SSH protocol.

The xz linkage was indirect through a systemd library that some systemd systems link into sshd.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#739

Post by whimsicalism » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:52 PM UTC

birdiesanders wrote: post #525

whimsicalism wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it? most HPC (if GPU clusters count) are probably in industry and managed by containers

Containers rely on many privilege separation systems to do what they do, they are in fact a rather extreme case of multi-user systems, but they tend to present as “single” user environs to the container’s processes.

> they are in fact a rather extreme case of multi-user systems

Are they? My understanding was that by default, the `dockerd` (or whatever) is root and then all containers map to the same non-privileged user.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#740

Post by hmmm-i-wonder » Wed, May 01, 2024, 3:56 PM UTC

Hendrikto wrote: post #676

lupusreal wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these problems are basically negligible because the amount of people trying to "configure sudo to be safe to use for unprivileged users, by only allowing specific things to run with it" is negligible. Virtually all users of sudo are using it on their own computer which they are the sole user and ultimately the administrator of. Even in corporate contexts where the company owns the machine instead of the user,…

> Virtually all users of sudo are using it on their own computer which they are the sole user and ultimately the administrator of. This is not the case at all. The vast vast majority of Linux installs are on servers.

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