Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
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Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#2Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing.
It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms and development tools the future is looking grim. Remember, once a freedom is relinquished it can be very difficult to get it back.
As much as I dislike trying to build complex apps on the web stack I'm starting to feel an almost moral obligation as a hacker to throw my weight behind the web, for whatever it's worth.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#3Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#4Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…
> Remember, once a freedom is relinquished it can be very difficult to get it back.
No, it's not. I'm a huge, huge MS fanboi. I've used WP7 since it launched, I've been using Windows full time for quite a few years now and love it, I'm a huge .NET fan, etc. But about two weeks ago, I switched back to using Linux full-time. I only plan on using Windows in VMs for running software I'm reversing; everything else will be done natively under Linux.
Windows 8 on ARM being so locked down was the last straw. I'm done playing their game, even if it means a slight drop in productivity in the short term.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#5Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…
Well said. However, we can go to back the open platforms, like Android.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#6I think they should instead focus on making Metro appealing to develop on, rather than making it the only free option.
At least they still allow other compilers and any programming language.
I wish Ubuntu would step up their development resources game, so that it becomes less painful to do anything there.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#7Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…
Well said. However, we can go to back the open platforms, like Android.
Honest question: how open is Android? I mean, when you consider Play. Can you write/submit an end-user programming app like Scratch? I know we can always dev-unlock the device and install anything we want, but what about the kid with an Android tablet who wants to start hacking?
I'm worried about this move to walled gardens on all the platforms. The desktop is one of the last bastions of openness, but its not really evolving. Could we have cake (openness) and eat it to (app store where devs can make money, at least easily distribute their possibly creation-oriented apps)?
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#8Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…
> Remember, once a freedom is relinquished it can be very difficult to get it back. No, it's not. I'm a huge, huge MS fanboi. I've used WP7 since it launched, I've been using Windows full time for quite a few years now and love it, I'm a huge .NET fan, etc. But about two weeks ago, I switched back to using Linux full-time. I only plan on using Windows in VMs for running software I'm reversing; everything else will be…
You have that option because some people have done the hard work of building Linux into a viable alternative. If we collectively do the easy thing and submit to these new controls those alternatives may cease to exist. I think these new walled garden platforms are a real threat to the open web.
But I applaud your willingness to put principle before convenience. I've been working almost exclusively on iOS apps for the last year and I really enjoy the platform but it bothers my conscience.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#9Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…
Agreed. It's unfortunate. I'm not an open source or freedom zealot but good gawd the open web is what gave birth to all the awesomeness we have. Take away "open" and we'll end up with a bunch of software on all of our mobile phones that's the equivalent of IE6 in 2012.
Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well said. However, we can go to back the open platforms, like Android.
Honest question: how open is Android? I mean, when you consider Play. Can you write/submit an end-user programming app like Scratch? I know we can always dev-unlock the device and install anything we want, but what about the kid with an Android tablet who wants to start hacking? I'm worried about this move to walled gardens on all the platforms. The desktop is one of the last bastions of openness, but its not really…
Android is not as open as I would like, but most devices still let you tick one checkbox in the preferences and then install whatever you like. The tools are open and free and work on Mac/Win/Linux.
I think people wildly overestimate how much money the typical app can make in any of the app stores but I do think it's important that we find ways to make it easier to monetize web apps.