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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#491

Post by gmueckl »

themerone wrote: post #440
riddley wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing is happening with Wayland. It reduces features adds complexity and solves no new problems but here it comes.

How is Wayland more complex than X?

The resulting wayland environments are more complex because wayland itself refuses to define/include features that desktop systems are expected to have. This results in a sprawling mess of competing and incompatible interfaces for those gaps that other parts of the implementations (desktop environments) now have to compensate for by including multiple implementations of the same thing based on all these different interfaces.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#492

Post by klysm »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #457

I'm not a fan of sudo. It's does so much it needs BNF to describe it's configuration format. Who knows, maybe replacing the configuration with polkit is a good idea. Still it's a stand alone binary with one clear job to do, simple enough that one person has no trouble getting their head around it so it's not surprising it hasn't had too many problems over it's long life time. This made me smile: > sudo has serious pr…

> That is a bit rich coming from the author of systemd, which must be in the running for one of the largest bodies of code that must run as root.

Not really a far comparison given that it’s an init system

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#493

Post by dijit »

logicprog wrote: post #489
dijit wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your first point: some people agree, most notably the OpenBSD people who did something about it and wrote “doas” as a replacement; which fits the most common use-cases of sudo without fanfare.

And, as LP points out, fails to solve the actual problem because it's still locked into the exact same flawed Unix model, and refuses to integrate with anything else in the system to get things done in a better more systematic way. It's just a slightly refined version of the same tired old Unix way

Use something else then?

Linux won on Unix merits.

Feels a bit disingenuous to use that against it, especially when including half the system libs has caused one major and highly publicized security issue already

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#494

Post by metalspoon »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #421
TZubiri wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine. Not every software needs to be infinitely configurable and open source just in case the configurations don't cover the needs of all. We need opinionated software, if you don't want to make any choice for me, you can't even give me an assembly editor for fear of forcing your CPU arch of choice.

Counterpoint: GNOME and the modern GTK framework (I needn't say more.)

Yes. I prefer having tools that do one thing well. That's the point of unix. How the user uses them should be up to her.

GNOME offering a monolithic environment with heavy opinionation is the opposite.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#495

Post by 8372049 »

theteapot wrote: post #433
berkes wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always still split up "sysadmin" from "deploy". Ephemeral setups (amongst which k8s) remove that need but introduce a big load of other stuff. Having a VPS that is managed by sysadmins (users with sudo rights, authed with keys) and on which partly overlapping "deploy" users can write to small parts and maybe do a passwordless "sudo sysctl restart fooapp" but only that, is a nice and simple setup. I manage at least…

I think you mean systemctl.

He probably meant sysadmin as in the account with sudo access.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#496

Post by gpm »

zamadatix wrote: post #394
dsr_ wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's three things: * here is a feature which we are defaulting to on * there's no persistent config for it * we know better than you do about your preferences

"Defaulting to on" is just a symlink to an existing binary so that's not really much a problem.

A symlink to a binary that I'm going to pass a password to seems like a security bug waiting to happen (just in the manner that any complexity around privilege escalation is a bad idea).

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#497

Post by vdqtp3 »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #429
lupusreal wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You joke but the inability of BEVs to make use of the gas station infrastructure is probably their number one obstacle to mass adoption.

You just rent some parking space for the charge pylons. Probably off to the side where the self-service wash hose/tire pump usually is.

The energy bandwidth of a charger as opposed to a gas pump is a huge issue right now.

Gas pumps can easily pump up to 10gpm [1], corresponding to 300 miles of charge in 3-5 minutes as opposed to Superchargers, which take 15 minutes to charge enough for 200 miles of driving[2].

When this is improved, it will make BEV's much more acceptable to many people.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_pump#Design

[2] https://www.energysage.com/ev-charging/tesla-supercharger-gu...

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#498

Post by alright2565 »

amaterasu wrote: post #447
tadfisher wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

journalctl -f -u Shows you all installed units if you have working shell completion, or 'a ' gets you all units starting with 'a', etc.

In which shell?

bash & zsh are supported by upstream: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/main/shell-completio...

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#499

Post by rstuart4133 »

logicprog wrote: post #487
rstuart4133 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I'm not going the effort of breaking it down like he did, so just looking at total lines in the source calculated with "wc -l $(find . -type f)": sudo: 284,103 systemd: 1,981,535

I find your comment here sadly indicative of the level of discussion around systemd from its haters. Your metric is utterly misleading not only because you're almost certainly counting non-code files, but more crucially, because the systemd repository contains the code for *sixty-nine* entirely separate binaries, separate tools under the overall systemd project umbrella , so counting their collective code size as if…

Two things:

- Non code files were counted for both sudo and systemd. That's because I'm lazy, not because I think it influences the result one way or the other (I don't what effect it would have).

- Separate binaries are not separate logical entities. Pointing to separate binaries is a misdirection. systemd is a set of binaries cooperating using RPC (dbus) to yield something bigger than any single binary. The biggest hint they are interconnected is they are in one source ball for a reason: so these binaries can share a lot of code and interact in complex ways.

As for systemd-run being "a separate binary, with a separate memory space, and a separate permissions model", those things didn't protect openssh being hit with the XZ Utils hack via systemd. An unexpected interconnection is more than enough. systemd abounds with interconnections. Being tightly interconnected often gives you greater functionality, and in the case of Run0 I suspect that is going to be a big win because systemd has a lot of process isolation mechanisms built in. But complex interconnected systems achilles heel is security, and that's definitely true here.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#500

Post by CuriousCosmic »

dijit wrote: post #480
bryanlarsen wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPC will likely be over d-bus. The new process will fork off a systemd which is almost always pid 1, but it might not have to be.

are there any non-systemd DBus options anymore? I had a hard time a year ago setting up Gentoo because there were no maintained options at that time.

There are. Gentoo has actually always used the FreeDesktop reference implementation instead of sd-bus (the systemd implementation).

FreeDesktop also maintains a list of implementations (also including bindings so you have to read to find which ones are full impls vs libdbus bindings).

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DBusBindings/

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