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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#421

Post by shrimp_emoji »

TZubiri wrote: post #339
bityard wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perfect example of a choice that a developer makes to suit his/her personal preference and environment, believing that everyone does (or should) use their computer the same way. Which is sadly becoming a more common trend. I like the idea, but I don't think it should be on by default. The rest of us have just used root-specific shell prompts for the last few decades or so.

It's fine. Not every software needs to be infinitely configurable and open source just in case the configurations don't cover the needs of all. We need opinionated software, if you don't want to make any choice for me, you can't even give me an assembly editor for fear of forcing your CPU arch of choice.

Counterpoint: GNOME and the modern GTK framework

(I needn't say more.)

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#422

Post by immibis »

growse wrote: post #387
immibis wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Put everything in one big ball" is systemd mentality AND something that enabled the xz exploit to work.

Lots of things enabled the xz exploit to work. If the lesson you take from xz is "systemd bad" then you've really missed the wood for the trees.

It's one of many things to consider. Think of it as sandboxing, or attack surface reduction. Should we expose everything to everything else, or should it be on a need-to-know basis?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#423

Post by immibis »

paulddraper wrote: post #258
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Why do they have to do this? This is really, really stupid. My issue isn't even that someone tries to replace sudo. That may or may not be a completely fine thing to do, depending on the state of sudo and what improvements can be made. But what makes me really upset is this completely unexplainable need to make everything part of one particular init system. There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replaceme…

> There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replacement to systemd It is said right there: the reason is to avoid the awkward SUID issues, and to have a privileged process create the process.

Instead you get awkward state management issues. Will the child really inherit everything it needs from the parent or has systemd forgotten to transmit something? If I chroot and then run0 will that process also run in the chroot? What about systems with older versions of systemd?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#424

Post by pessimizer »

nialv7 wrote: post #307
StimDeck wrote: post #22

Just a reminder that there are plenty of systemd-less distros available. Also a reminder that those distros would have been safe from the nearly-solar-winds-level backdooring of Linux distros from XZ utils.

Can you even hear what you are saying? Don't you find it ridiculous to blame the XZ backdoor on systemd, instead of the actual hacker? Even if systemd did not exist, the hacker would have just picked something else to infiltrate.

> Don't you find it ridiculous to blame the XZ backdoor on systemd, instead of the actual hacker?

This is a great argument against all computer security. If you believe in securing your computer, you're supporting hackers. Because if you ever believe that a lock has failed, you're saying the thief is innocent; that's how logic works.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#425

Post by m463 »

kevincox wrote: post #150

> One could say, "run0" is closer to behaviour of "ssh" than to "sudo", in many ways. This is an interesting offhand comment. You could implement a very similar tool by SSHing to localhost.

I had to write an ssh client for an embedded system long ago.

Looking at the design, I found it to be sort of messy.

You could restrict commands ssh could invoke, but it didn't seem super secure.

Also scp/sftp was not well designed. You basically had to give ssh access to your system to allow a file to be copied, and there were no real path restrictions.

I personally thought ssh could be much more robust in what you could run and what you couldn't. And scp/sftp could have better filesystem semantics so you could have more security in what you could access.

And I thought having a write-only scp would be really interesting, sort of like a dropbox for people to send you files securely, but not have to give someone ssh credentials to do it. And an anoymous scp/sftp for distribution or a dropbox could have been really interesting too.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#426

Post by airocker »

mbreese wrote: post #413
shrimp_emoji wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're only used to cloud VMs that are setup for a single user or service, I guess your views would be different. This is overwhelmingly the view for business and personal users. Settings like what you described are very rare nowadays. No corporate IT department is timesharing users on a mainframe. It's just baremetal laptops or VMs on Windows with networked mountpoints.

Multi-user clusters are still quite common in HPC. And I think you're not going to see a switch away from multi-user systems anytime soon. Single user systems like laptops might be a good use-case, but even the laptop I'm using now has different accounts for me and my wife (and it's a Mac). When you have one OS that is used on devices from phones, to laptops, to servers, to HPC clusters, you're going to have this fri…

you could potentially create multiple containers in that machine which are single user and give to every user who needs access. CPU/Memory/GPU can be assigned in any way you want(shared/not shared). Now no user can mess up another user.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#427

Post by slackfan »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #327
slackfan wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if your marker for a rational OS is NT.

Not the parent commenter. Windows has a lot of rubbish user-level interaction which belie how good an OS NT really is. Anyone who blindly disses it because 'Windoze' and 'M$ bad' is not really worthy of any attention whatsoever.

NT isn't terrible with some very well designed systems, that is quite true. It is however good for a completely different list of reasons that *nix is. Trying to conflate the two is a pottering's errand.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#428

Post by ranger207 »

agilob wrote: post #230
kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

I remember, and sometimes still have to deal with, programs that _didn't_ dump their logs in /var/log, forcing me to figure out where the log are in the first place

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#429

Post by shrimp_emoji »

lupusreal wrote: post #412
deadbunny wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried filling up a Tesla at a gas station. And now I don't like electric cars anymore.

You joke but the inability of BEVs to make use of the gas station infrastructure is probably their number one obstacle to mass adoption.

You just rent some parking space for the charge pylons. Probably off to the side where the self-service wash hose/tire pump usually is.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#430

Post by NewJazz »

airocker wrote: post #310

I have seldom come across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers. Its generally just one user on one physical machine now a days. I understand run0's promise is still useful but i would really like to see the whole unix permission system simplified for just one user who has sudo access.

You only have one admin? How do you know who logged in, ssh certificates?
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