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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#271

Post by iforgotpassword »

rangerelf wrote: post #260
superb_dev wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The follow argument is identical to tail `-f`. `sudo journalctl -f -u `

And what would be the equivalent to, "Oh, I don´t know the name of the log for this process I can see in 'ps aux', let me cd into /var/log and see what filenames I can find ... or grep everything until I can find a couple of words that make some sense so I can keep digging further"? The lack of explorability in journalctl, the "need" to keep everything locked behind their own flavor of tools and magic file types, is…

Huh, isn't grepping journalctl output pretty much the same? It even prefixes messages by the binary name.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#272

Post by [deleted] »

constantcrying wrote: post #39

Why do they have to do this? This is really, really stupid. My issue isn't even that someone tries to replace sudo. That may or may not be a completely fine thing to do, depending on the state of sudo and what improvements can be made. But what makes me really upset is this completely unexplainable need to make everything part of one particular init system. There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replaceme…

[deleted]

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#273

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #143
constantcrying wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think the systemd project shouldn't exist. I have no problem with someone writing a sudo replacement. Do you understand the difference?

Do you also think the GNU project shouldn't exist? If not, what's the difference?

I can use GNU bash on NetBSD with no other GNU software installed. I can install GNU coreutils on Alpine Linux (complete with musl libc instead of glibc). In fact, it's possible to just install a single part of GNU coreutils but not the rest - ex. Alpine packages just sha512sum as https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?branch=edge&name=coreu... (not sure why). I don't think I've seen it done, but you could build a Linux distro that used glibc and gcc but no other GNU software (busybox coreutils and ksh shell, say). GNU has their own kernel, but is predominantly used on other OSs. They want to build all the pieces, but you can opt in or out of all of them, and they're all portable. In contrast, if you want to use, say, run0, you must run systemd as PID 1, you must use journald, and the whole stack only runs on Linux. So yeah, that is actually different.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#274

Post by iforgotpassword »

hughesjj wrote: post #240
agilob wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

My 2c, I definitely prefer systemd boot+networkd, fine with journald, don't use the others enough to have an opinion.

Same. Init system is awesome, love .ini files, networkd is as simple as it can be, journald is fine. Love systemd-nspawn for simple containers as it feels more lightweight than docker. Especially for quick one-offs where I don't need isolated networking you basically have chroot on steroids with "systemd-nspawn -D /path/to/fstree".

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#275

Post by bryanlarsen »

navaati wrote: post #211
bryanlarsen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you'll need to run systemd as pid 1 to use this.

Oh you do: this work completely differently from sudo, there is no suid binary involved, instead it does IPC to the systemd pid 1 and asks it to spawn you process, attached to your current terminal. So if you don't have systeme as pid 1, it'll have noone to talk to. Whether you like that or not is for you to decide.

IPC will likely be over d-bus. The new process will fork off a systemd which is almost always pid 1, but it might not have to be.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#276

Post by jauntywundrkind »

wkat4242 wrote: post #4

I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…

What complaining. There weren't paved paths before. Whatever one person learned was different from how anyone else did it. Few of the tools had anywhere near the essential capabilities, serving o ly some tiny niche of the use cases in some tool specific limited way.

Look at all the different netsevs supported by systemd-networkd. https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/syst... This is a huge list of tools that required a huge assortment of tools to do before, few of which had even part way decent management & fewer still had good init scripts. You used to have to learn from 0 each time, with each tool. Nothing was alike, nothing was as capable, nothing was integrative.

Don't listen to these complainers, for God sake. Your life is too short to get pissed off about well built work together featureful tools being built in a mono-repo fashion.

I'm so tired of the sabotage, so tired of broadscale general refusenik attitudes. This post is absurd. There was nothing to learn before, everything was 100% special snowflake & distinct. None of it was great, all of it was limited. Systemd mono-repo is built of many small pieces, but they couple together and are 100x more learnable. What you learn today will work across whatever system you run across. It's such a a better world, and these "pry it from my cold dead fingers" attitude can keep to that path for all I care, but I wish they weren't poisoning kinds with absurd incorrect negativity & being such magnets for disdain. The world today is fantastic & you rarely see these folks with even an iota of appreciation for how good we have it, never a drop of balance. But hate sells, & unites, powerfully.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#278

Post by saghm »

lolinder wrote: post #249
agilob wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

> I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. journalctl supports -f, which by your own account you were already using for tail, so I'm not clear what's worse there. > I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar created by logrotate with a date in the filename. My memory of thi…

> journalctl supports -f, which by your own account you were already using for tail, so I'm not clear what's worse there

Yeah, this is a bit of an odd complaint. If I were this bothered by having to type those, I'd just make an alias to "journalctl --follow --nopager"` and would have forgotten about it years ago.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#280

Post by [deleted] »

kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

[deleted]
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