Guess it’s time for me to switch to Void…
Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
251–260 of 902 posts
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
It really is not. This "sudo replacement" (which under the hood is systemd-run) will apparently require quite a bit of the systemd stack to operate. That is not something you have access to in many lightweight container distros or on other non-systemd distros. And coreutils is expected because most people use GNU/Linux. Coreutils is that GNU userland part. And either way, the majority of coreutils are GNU implementat…
I doubt you'll need to run systemd as pid 1 to use this.
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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#253I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…
I want the change. I love it when new and better ways are found to do things. I love it that Linux is constantly improving and moving forward. I’m willing to accept along the way some things seem to be mis steps (I’m looking at you snap packaging). I love it that improved network configuration systems are being adopted because network configuration is a pain. I love systemd and when new stuf comes out from the system…
> I love it when new and better ways are found to do things.
I do, too. But I also really hate it when those new and better ways make things worse for me. Systemd does that in a couple of important ways. There is even some network-related startup stuff that I can no longer make work automatically at all. For me personally, systemd is a regression, not an advance.
But I also recognize that the Linux world is not duty-bound to make sure it remains excellent for me, and I've pretty much given up on advocating for my needs in the Linux space. There's no point, particularly with the systemd crowd.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#254Just a reminder that there are plenty of systemd-less distros available. Also a reminder that those distros would have been safe from the nearly-solar-winds-level backdooring of Linux distros from XZ utils.
That backdoor was never pushed out of the testing branches for distros.
It was in OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for a few days actually (RPM-based + rolling release + did the sshd patch). I was affected by it and it was fun watching the reliable ~100ms difference in `time /usr/sbin/sshd -h` with and without `TERM=foo`
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#255Why do they have to do this? This is really, really stupid. My issue isn't even that someone tries to replace sudo. That may or may not be a completely fine thing to do, depending on the state of sudo and what improvements can be made. But what makes me really upset is this completely unexplainable need to make everything part of one particular init system. There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replaceme…
>This is a completely insane way to develop software, instead of creating a new piece of software in a separate project
I appreciate and respect the KISS sentiment of doing one thing and doing it well, but oftentimes I also think open source programs' lack of integration with each other at a fundamental level is also one of its biggest downsides.
Being a Windows wizard unlike most folks around these parts, seeing and using the tight integrations between all the Windows subsystems is frankly marvelous and I wish Linux could have something like that.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both can be true though, it can create an integrated system where everything systemd-* works together, but where you can replace any systemd-* you don’t like with something else
The point of an integrated system is that interactions between components enhance the system as a whole. This is obviously incompatible with an easy replacement of components. This is literally just basic systems engineering. I don't even know what you are arguing here. The more tightly integrated a system is the harder it is to replace individual components.
You can replace most systemd components but in that case you have fewer features and probably more code overall. If you run the whole systemd bundle you get more features.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Systemd already handles logins Exactly that was my objection.
And I disagree with that. The 'sudo problem' is a good example why it makes sense to handle init and login by the same system (note I'm not meaning "same binary" here, in fact, they are separate binaries in systemd). The SUID approach for sudo has been a problem for decades, and it needs to go. I don't really care if it's done by systemd, or if we agree on another system like S6 that was mentioned in another thread -…
I agree with u/constantcrying. This should not be part of systemd. It should be a separate service [started by systemd].
Reasons:
- systemd is a large beast -- no need to make it larger with unrelated things
- the Unix philosophy seems to be applicable here
- the result should be portable to non-systemd systems
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#258Why do they have to do this? This is really, really stupid. My issue isn't even that someone tries to replace sudo. That may or may not be a completely fine thing to do, depending on the state of sudo and what improvements can be made. But what makes me really upset is this completely unexplainable need to make everything part of one particular init system. There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replaceme…
> There is absolutely no reason to tie your new sudo replacement to systemd
It is said right there: the reason is to avoid the awkward SUID issues, and to have a privileged process create the process.
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#259[flagged]
Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…
The follow argument is identical to tail `-f`. `sudo journalctl -f -u `
And what would be the equivalent to, "Oh, I don´t know the name of the log for this process I can see in 'ps aux', let me cd into /var/log and see what filenames I can find ... or grep everything until I can find a couple of words that make some sense so I can keep digging further"?
The lack of explorability in journalctl, the "need" to keep everything locked behind their own flavor of tools and magic file types, is what makes the rest of us abhor them.