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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#241

Post by exe34 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #4

I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…

I so want to ditch Linux for bsd, but hardware support, both for my current laptop and future pain in searching for compatible hardware is the only thing putting me off. And my server needs cuda for my AI shenanigans, so probably no bsd there either ...

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#242

Post by cyberpunk »

andrewstuart wrote: post #234
wkat4242 wrote: post #4

I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…

I want the change. I love it when new and better ways are found to do things. I love it that Linux is constantly improving and moving forward. I’m willing to accept along the way some things seem to be mis steps (I’m looking at you snap packaging). I love it that improved network configuration systems are being adopted because network configuration is a pain. I love systemd and when new stuf comes out from the system…

I’ve been running Ubuntu boxes in prod since 12.x — there is no “improved” way to put an ip address on an interface besides writing something to a file in /etc, but every update this file changes, or it’s format does.

It’s bullshit and I wish it would end.

Alas, keeps the consultant bucks flooding in when we have to rewrite a load of cfgmgt to go to 24.04 I guess..

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#243

Post by [deleted] »

growse wrote: post #124
StimDeck wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSH being linked to XZ doesn’t.

So aim your ire at the distributions who (I agree) cocked this one up. "Take a library dependency to implement basic functionality" is not a systemd mentality, it's pernicious throughout software development - see leftPad as another example.

[deleted]

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#244

Post by immibis »

growse wrote: post #124
StimDeck wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSH being linked to XZ doesn’t.

So aim your ire at the distributions who (I agree) cocked this one up. "Take a library dependency to implement basic functionality" is not a systemd mentality, it's pernicious throughout software development - see leftPad as another example.

"Put everything in one big ball" is systemd mentality AND something that enabled the xz exploit to work.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#245

Post by cyberpunk »

hasselhoftd wrote: post #5
wkat4242 wrote: post #4

I'm really starting to hate the sub-community in Linux that tries to constantly change it. I don't want to learn a new network config alternative with every update (Ubuntu changed its net config tool again with 24.04). I don't want an immutable os. I don't want to learn to write new config files. I just want to do what I've been doing but with new packages. If there's a problem with something, just fix it. Don't thro…

Agreed. I've taken to treating my linux installs like I used to treat Windows: no internet access expect application specific. For example, I run a Visionfive 2 OpenBSD install with squid, everything else has to go through that.

Curious why squid and not pf?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#247

Post by Xylakant »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #169
Faaak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, basically I've found that the people the more vocal against systemd are either not really knowing how it works behind the scenes, and just criticizing for the sake of it (or because other people do so), or criticizing from an ideological point of view (do one thing and do it well). They see systemd as an octopus, not following the unix ideology. Which I don't really agree tbh

The issue is that it's not just ideological. "Do one thing and do it well" is important because if you want to port software to another platform, it's a lot easier to port a single dependency component over to make it work than it is to port over the entire framework. This is a serious problem and it makes it way harder to make things cross platform.

Systemd was written specifically for Linux, hard depends on a list of features provided by the Linux kernel and leverages them to do its work. Porting it to another kernel is a rewrite. Lack of portability is in this case a design tradeoff.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#248

Post by stop50 »

abridgett wrote: post #178

I'm not sure it can replace non-trivial setups - sudo/doas looks set to stay. e.g when you need to restrict a set of users to run only certain applications with certain other users. sudo can do this (even if the config format can be painful).

Thats why i moved every sudoers rule to ldap. Much nicer to configure and no need for files with the same content on multiple servers. New users are added and removed fast and i can check the rule on any server.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#249

Post by lolinder »

agilob wrote: post #230
kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

> I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`.

journalctl supports -f, which by your own account you were already using for tail, so I'm not clear what's worse there.

> I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar created by logrotate with a date in the filename.

My memory of this time was that every single application had its own unique method of handling logs and its own unique location for storing them. So sure, once you found the logs you didn't have to Google how to find the relevant dates if the application is using logrotate as you describe, but finding the logs in the first place was always a challenge. Systemd is nice in that it provides a single place where all logs go and a single interface for navigating them.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#250

Post by paulddraper »

kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

100%

Systemd unit files make Linux feel like a rational OS.

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